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  1. #1
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    Default Flavorings, Nutrition, and Insect Repellent? - a look into Essential Oils on trail

    Everything that I am taking with me, has a distinct job this season. The best pieces of gear have multiple tasks or obs that they can accomplish. As a long time essential oil fan, I knew that many oils had repelling properties. I started off by doing research, and seeing that the major oils against ticks would be Catnip, Rose Geranium, and Neem oils. Do not worry. I am not placing my health just with oils. I am also going to treat all of my gear with permethrin. It was too bad that I didn't have either of those three oils, but I do have a bunch of oils that I can use for food flavoring. I was surprised with what happened next.

    I continued my research by focusing on the oils that I had. The cheapest gear is something that you don't need to purchase. One by one, I would check each oil that I owned. Every single one of them had insect repelling properties. In addition, each one of these oils is graded for internal use ... so, I can use them to flavor my food also.

    The plan is to make several different blends of these oils. I'll likely keep the mints together, and then the tree and patchouli oils together. The hope would be to keep the really offensive flavors out of the main blend, so that I can use the main blend more often without hurting food flavor. If the oils don't mesh with the food, then I can simply ingest the oil by itself.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    List of edible repelling oils that I own:

    Patchouli - insect repellant, inflammation, cracked or chapped skin, athlete's foot, dandruff

    White fir - insect repellent, joints, muscles, soreness, mobility, clear breathing, energizes the body,

    Cardamom - insect repellent, Indigestion, Clear Breathing, Upset Stomach, Frustration or Anger, Gain a Clear Perspective, Take responsibility for self,

    Cedarwood - insect repellent (ticks), Clear respiratory, clear skin, confidence and connection with others,

    Geranium - Calming, Healthy Skin, helps regain trust in the world and others, manage overwhelming emotions

    Black Pepper - insect repellent Circulation, Antioxidants, Digestion, Calming, Clarity, Honesty,

    Wintergreen - insect repellent, joints, muscles, respiratory, trust in the process of life, release pain or old habits

    Cypress - insect repellent (effective as deet), respiratory, muscles, circulation, oily skin, emotional cleansing, helps release emotions, how to let go and go with the flow, trust the process of life,

    Cassia - insect repellent, immune system, digestion, inner strength, courage, confidence

    Fennel - insect repellent, Digestion, lymphatic system, skin irritation, self esteem, motivation, stubbornness, courage

    Coriander (cilantro) - insect repellent, digestion, hormones, insulin, joints and muscles, honor one's own needs, find yourself

    Vetiver - insect repellent, circulation, grounding, Immune system, feeling restless, relaxation, sleep, apathy, disconnection,

    Cumin - insect repellent, oral health, digestion, muscles and joints, immune system, emotional and physical pain or trauma, find inner strength

    Ginger - insect repellent (inhibit mosquitos 3:35 at 50% concentration), Digestion, Nervous system, empowering, strength, courage, scarcity, balance

    Dill - insect repellent (1.5 hours), Digestion, antioxidant, calming, self confidence

    Juniper - insect repellent (ticks), Kidney and Urinary, Digestive, tension and stress, emotional support, navigate fears and resistance, overcome nightmares, scared of the dark

    Spearmint - insect repellent, Digestion, respiratory, self doubt, mental exhaustion, sharpness of mind

    Peppermint - insect repellent, digestion, respiratory, nervous system, joints and muscles, uplifting, hopelessness, pessimism,

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Some additional information (emotional effects) is pulled from http://www.sustainablebabysteps.com

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Oils against ticks: Rose Geranium, Garlic, Catnip, Neem, Wild Tomato, Thyme, Oregano, Eucalyptus, Lavendar, Lemongrass, Palmarosa, Pennroyal, Cedarwood, Rosewood, Grapefruit, Juniper

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Other Repelling Oils

    Anise
    Geranium
    Clary Sage
    Citronella
    Immortelle (Helichrysum aka Roth)
    Lavendar
    Arborvitae
    Basil
    Vetiver
    Bergamot
    Cinnamon
    Lemon Eucalyptus - CDC approved (95% protection 3 hours)
    Mint
    Catnip
    Garlic - ticks
    Neem - around 3 hours
    Tumeric
    Cedar
    Tansy
    Clove
    Soy (organic soy oil)
    Lotus
    Thyme
    Wormwood
    Eucalyptus
    Rosemary
    Marigold
    Tea Tree
    Oregano
    Lemongrass
    Sage
    Bay
    Lemon/Orange
    wild tomato (lycopersicon hirsutum)

    --------------------------------------------------------------
    List of protection period of different oils versus deet
    S. No Name of Compound Protection Period (hours)
    1 Litsea 2
    2 Geranium 1.5
    3 Rosewood 1.5
    4 Lemon grass 1.5
    5 Lemon scented 1.5
    6 Dill 1.5
    7 Cinnamon 1
    8 Galbanum 1
    9 Citronella 1
    10 Camphor 0.5
    11 Catnip 0.5
    12 Thyme 0.5
    13 Rosemary 0.5
    14 Jasmine 0.5
    15 Basil 0.5
    16 Frankincense 0.5
    17 Lavender 0.5
    18 Amyris 0.5
    19 Peppermint 0.5
    20 Tagetes 0.5
    21 Chamomile 0.5
    22 Black pepper 0
    23 Juniper 0
    24 DEPA 5.5
    25 DEET 6

  2. #2

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    Mrs Gambit is real big into the oils. If they made them in something other than heavy glass bottles I would be more apt to carrysome on the trail. To take 1 of all of them would be heavy, with little sustainable supply of any one variety.

    Now on my last 2 week trip I did carry hemp oil(non CBD non THC) and it really helped calm me down. I used it twice a day for about 3 months and now I do not regularly take it anymore, but it helped me learn how to better control my anxiety and stress.

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    In many parts of bear country, one is supposed to put all smellables in a bear-resistant container. It's a good thing they don't make bigger Bear Vaults, or you'd have to watch your 6.

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    When they discuss smellables, they are talking about food smells. Now, does that include herb oils and such?? Who knows? I'll be using an OP sack for my food, and my oils will be with it. Gambit, I don't use the glass bottles that the oils came in, but little sampler bottles for the oils. I think they are like 5 mL or so. Then, I'll have a few larger bottles in my bounce box to fill up my little ones during resupply.

    I found the little vials that I use. They are 1.5 milliliters, and they're quite light. I'm only planning on carrying a couple, as I've already made my mixes. One of the main mixes is all of the tick repelling oils. This one won't be used for food as much as the others. I have made three mixes that are food centric. The first is a spicy mixture based in cinnamon, cassia, ginger and a few others. The second is a mint blend, and the third is a general cooking blend.

    As for hemp oil, I am a fan of CBD oils. I always suggest that people get the stuff that is full spectrum, as that's where the health benefits come from (in my lay opinion). While I don't purchase the oil by itself, I do purchase it in the form of vape juice. I'm a supporter of the Koi brand, and I like their gold version which is unflavored. This bottle has 1000 mg in it, but costs about a hundred dollars (ridiculous in my opinion). The benefit is that it can be used as a tincture also. I hadn't considered taking any of this product, but I could really gain some health benefits through adding it to my food.

    I'm having a bit of trouble with my gram accurate scale, because the batteries all corroded in it. When I fix it, I will be able to look at the weight of those tiny vials. My other scale only does ounces, and isn't even that accurate. As for the size of the small vials, they have always been large enough for me. They're small enough that they fit easily into a pocket, and just enough liquid to last a long time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trambo View Post
    When they discuss smellables, they are talking about food smells. Now, does that include herb oils and such?? Who knows?
    Toothpaste, sunscreen, Chap Stick, and other smellables are also often listed as well.

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    Previous Thread on WhiteBlaze (Essential Oils???) The biggest discussion in that thread is about peppermint, but I haven't seen reports of bears going after mint oils. It seems to be anecdotal evidence that bears enjoy the mint plant. Do we have reports of people being mauled because of mint flavored bubble gum? I know that's a bit of a stretch (because oils are stronger), but I am still curious for the basis of these suggestions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trambo View Post
    Previous Thread on WhiteBlaze (Essential Oils???) The biggest discussion in that thread is about peppermint, but I haven't seen reports of bears going after mint oils. It seems to be anecdotal evidence that bears enjoy the mint plant. Do we have reports of people being mauled because of mint flavored bubble gum? I know that's a bit of a stretch (because oils are stronger), but I am still curious for the basis of these suggestions.
    The big cats love mint oils as in "catnip" Big cats have mauled a few folks

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    Is there a prevalence of big cats on the AT? Is it something to be worried about, or just understand that the danger exists? Even though I'm not using catnip, i do have quite a bit of mint.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trambo View Post
    Is there a prevalence of big cats on the AT? Is it something to be worried about, or just understand that the danger exists? Even though I'm not using catnip, i do have quite a bit of mint.
    On the AT they have been seen:

    https://whiteblaze.net/forum/showthr...ountain-lions)


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._North_America
    Last edited by zelph; 01-26-2019 at 13:11.

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    Lightbulb More on the efficacy of non-DEET products

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26443777
    "Repellents with DEET as active ingredient had a prominent repellency effect over longer times and on both species. Repellents containing p-menthane-3,8-diol produced comparable results but for shorter time periods. Some of the DEET-free products containing citronella or geraniol did not have any significant repellency effect."

    Executive summary: DEET works best for protection against potentially deadly mosquito bites.

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    Minced garlic in a very low heat simmered in olive oil for a length of time?? Let cool over night.

    I had a very large pile of grass clipping way off about 350' from my house. Mosquitos were thriving around the pile that was generating heat. I put on my bee veil, walked out there to the pile with one arm treated and the other not. No skeeters landed on the treated arm, the other was quckly swarmed upon and I had to vacate at once. My friend made the concoction, I forgot the recipe

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    Quote Originally Posted by GoldenBear View Post
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26443777
    "Repellents with DEET as active ingredient had a prominent repellency effect over longer times and on both species. Repellents containing p-menthane-3,8-diol produced comparable results but for shorter time periods. Some of the DEET-free products containing citronella or geraniol did not have any significant repellency effect."

    Executive summary: DEET works best for protection against potentially deadly mosquito bites.
    Not sure DEET is best, another relative new product for the US call Picaridin is as effective without some of the negative side affects.

    https://www.outdoors.org/articles/am...sect-repellent

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    For those of you who don't know,I eat my insect repellent daily in the form of a B complex vitamin,apple cider vinegar capsule,and an odorless garlic pearl.Mosquitoes either do not pick up my scent or I might smell repulsive to them but it works for me.Before I started this regimen they would swarm me when I got up in the night.There are other health benefits to the mentioned supplements other than insect repulsion too.

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    You can't show evidence from one study, and make the Jump that DEET is better. That's a bit far fetched, considering there are substances shown to be many times more effective than DEET. Let's be realistic here, because it's way too easy to come in and be negative about an idea. You need to have a higher standard, if you're going to be pessimistic. Now, let me tell you why your opinion is so incorrect. First off, your study is talking about commercially available repellents versus deet: "eight commercially available products, two fragrances, and a vitamin B patch." Hmm, nothing about oils listed there, and I don't know any of the top 8 commercial repellents that are comprised solely with essential oils.

    Obviously, it's your opinion that Deet is better. Why do I propose this? If someone had simply done a google search of "essential oil more effective than deet", then you would see the preponderance of evidence against your opinion. You must compare the oils that we are discussing versus deet, not some unnamed commercial brand.

    Executive summary: Some people think that DEET is the best product available, and refuse to even look at research that shows otherwise.

    "In the past few years, a plant derived repellent, PMD has been proven to be suitably efficacious and safe to compete with DEET in the field of disease prevention, and repellents have been recognised by WHO as a useful disease prevention tool to complement insecticide-based means of vector control. The field of plant-based repellent evaluation and development had become far more rigorous in recent years and developments in methods of dispensing plant-based volatiles means that extension in the duration of repellency and consequent efficacy of plant-based repellents will be possible in future." - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3059459/

    "To our knowledge, this is also the first report showing that the longevity and effectiveness of these natural repellent compounds better than the gold standard repellent, DEET against those blood-sucking insects." - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6145915/ "While comparing the longevity of repellent efficiency between DEET and the coconut fatty acids, a significant stronger repellency was found from the coconut fatty acids even on the 7th day after application, with over 80% repellency remaining (Fig. 3B; P < 0.05). In contrast, the repellency of 10% DEET started to decrease on the third day after application. A second lab bioassay was designed to test bed bug choice between paired tents (harborages) treated with the coconut fatty acids, DEET and or a control showed an increase choice of DEET after 3 days, while the coconut fatty acids treated tents held strong repellency for up to 2 weeks" "For lone star ticks, Amblyomma americanum, laboratory bioassays showed no significant differences in repellency between the coconut fatty acids and DEET when each was tested at concentration of 0.05 mg/cm2". "An equal repellency between the coconut fatty acids and DEET was found against yellow fever mosquitoes, Aedes aegypti, when each was tested at concentration of >0.4 mg/cm2".

    "
    August 28, 2001
    Source:
    American Chemical Society
    Summary:
    Researchers report that nepetalactone, the essential oil in catnip that gives the plant its characteristic odor, is about ten times more effective at repelling mosquitoes than DEET — the compound used in most commercial insect repellents." https://www.sciencedaily.com/release...0828075659.htm



    I mean, those are just the first couple results of google. They actually show good information, where as the study that you claim shows DEET better than all other gives no such information. I'm sorry, but to me the science is clear. DEET is what people use to think was the best choice. I didn't even discuss Picaridin in detail, or cite any studies about that. It too is rated much better than DEET.

    I have heard that B complex helps, but I have not used acv caps, nor odorless garlic. The garlic caps I used were very odorous, and I stopped using them. I'm looking into oils for the space savings. Where a capsule is large and heavy, I wouldn't need but a drop or two of liquid. Maybe I should look into filling my own caps. Do you think ACV would deactivate any of the essential oils? It would be simple to put those two things together.

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    And then there are more recent studies saying things like this:

    (https://academic.oup.com/jinsectscie.../1/140/2583458) Oxford Academic Journal of Insect Science - 2015.


    "Reducing the number of host-vector interactions is an effective way to reduce the spread of vector-borne diseases. Repellents are widely used to protect humans from a variety of protozoans, viruses, and nematodes. DEET (N,N-Diethyl-meta-toluamide), a safe and effective repellent, was developed during World War II. Fear of possible side effects of DEET has created a large market for “natural” DEET-free repellents with a variety of active ingredients. We present a comparative study on the efficacy of eight commercially available products, two fragrances, and a vitamin B patch. The products were tested using a human hand as attractant in a Y-tube olfactometer setup with Aedes aegypti (Linnaeus) and Aedes albopictus(Skuse), both major human disease vectors. We found that Ae. albopictuswere generally less attracted to the test subject’s hand compared with Ae, aegypti . Repellents with DEET as active ingredient had a prominent repellency effect over longer times and on both species. Repellents containing p-menthane-3,8-diol produced comparable results but for shorter time periods. Some of the DEET-free products containing citronella or geraniol did not have any significant repellency effect. Interestingly, the perfume we tested had a modest repellency effect early after application, and the vitamin B patch had no effect on either species. This study shows that the different active ingredients in commercially available mosquito repellent products are not equivalent in terms of duration and strength of repellency. Our results suggest that products containing DEET or p-menthane-3,8-diol have long-lasting repellent effects and therefore provide good protection from mosquito-borne diseases."

    Probably all boils down to repellants that work for some people may not work for others.

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    Lightbulb Even more information

    DEET, picardin, or oil of eucalyptus have about the same ability to repel mosquitoes

    https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/...uide/index.htm

    Nothing else can match these, so using price is probably the best approach.

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    Deet can destroy your gear.In deep summer here in the South I will carry either picardin or Repel Lemon Eucalyptus for "just in case".If I use it,it will be sprayed on the hat or bandanna etc.Permethrin treated clothes will kill the ticks that try to get on you but you need to know how to use it and be careful not to let children or pets in the vicinity when the clothes are wet and in the bucket.(you can use a spray bottle to apply the solution and use much less material).

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    For me, I plan to douse the majority of my gear in Permethrin. Then, I'm going to supplement my food with essential oils for flavor. This should help with some of my scent. I've also looked into the few products suggested earlier in the thread. The B complex is pretty expensive, so I'll likely leave that out. The ACV capsules and odorless garlic are on my list to purchase. I then have my repelling oils that I am going to apply as needed. As a backup to the backup, I found Off Deep Woods wipes at the dollar tree. I'll carry one wipe, just in case.

    Goldenbear, I appreciate your attempt to reframe this discussion. You must understand that how you provided "proof" for deet did nothing to help your credibility. I mean, the study had no information attached to it, just opinion. Now, bringing up cost is an interesting viewpoint. Did you miss the part where these oils are already owned by me? These are at zero cost.

    Also, did you miss the part where I describe the other benefits of these oils? Many of them help with sore joints and muscles. Many more help with circulation and clear breathing. Shouldn't you figure in ancillary benefits when considering the products? Deet has only a single use, and it's dangerous at that (chemically and to gear).

    Does Deet provide antioxidants, tame an upset stomach, is an anti-fungal against athlete's foot, or improve digestion? I don't think so.


    Since you enjoy linking studies, I thought that I'd provide you with a very revealing study about DEET. from http://pmep.cce.cornell.edu/profiles.../deet-ext.html
    "Deet is absorbed promptly from the skin and distributed to all organs including the brain and the fetus. The compound is excreted in the milk but primarily in the urine (1, 15, 16).
    Using radioautography following intravenous injection of 14C-Deet, high tissue levels were found at first in the liver, kidney, lacrimal gland, and nasal mucosa. Very soon, concentrations higher than that in the blood were found in the thyroid and brown fat. Concentrations were highest and most persistent in the lacrimal gland. Concentrations in the fetus remained lower than those in the mother."...."After 14C-carboxylabeled Deet was applied to the skin of guinea pigs at rates of 1.08 to 1.10 mg/cm2 (rates similar to those used for human skin under practical conditions), over 98% of the total dose was recovered in different experiments. Within 6 hours, 0.149 to 0.152 mg/cm2 was lost by measured evaporation, and this amounted to 13.8 to 13.9% of the applied dose. At the end of this 6hour period, it was possible to recover a further 38.4 to 67.3% of the applied dose by washing the skin with ethanol until no further radioactivity could be removed. Similar proportions of nonradioactive Deet were measured chemically after evaporation and washing. Calculated by difference, the remainder, which had already been absorbed or was still in the skin presumably available for absorption, amounted to 18.9 to 47.8% of the applied dose. In spite of the washing, considerable radioactivity was detected in the skin by an instrument held 2.54 cm above the surface. Activity measured in the same way was 50% after 72 hours and 10% after 216 hours, counting the reading just after washing as 100%. This indicated considerable retention in the skin. When urine was sampled frequently, the highest concentration of radioactivity was found 6.5 hours after application, and considerable radioactivity was still present in 24 hours. Excretion then decreased rapidly but was still detectable 216 hours after application. Of the remainder mentioned above, >93% was measured in the urine, 0.75% was measured in the feces, and activity measured in skin and hair brought the proportion of the remainder actually measured to >94.90% of that determined by difference (1, 19).

    Excretion of 14C reached a high level 5 hours after application and remained high until 21 hours after application in a volunteer who had received a single application of a 25% solution of 14CDeet in absolute alcohol on two occasions. The treated skin was washed 8 hours after application, and 8 and 15% of the applied dose were recovered in the two experiments. Smaller total amounts (5.5 and 3.8%) were recovered in the urine (18)."



    Goldenbear, do you understand what a credible scientific study looks like? I posted several in my last reply that absolutely prove oils to work as good or better than DEET. Then, you post a consumerreports that claims only oil of lemon eucalyptus works. There's a major problem here...... these studies don't test very many essential oils at all. This consumer report test even concludes that picardin and oil of lemon eucalyptus works well. They're also calling it a fail if the tester gets a single bite in two back to back sessions. I'm sorry, but a scientific study looks at the percentage of mosquitos repelled over a period of time. It's not a blank pass or fail issue. These are absolutely unscientific studies shown..... and how can you prove it? Their "data" is behind a member wall. https://www.consumerreports.org/prod...ings-overview/ Yep, you can't even look at the data of their "study" without providing them with more viewer data... that's pretty skeezy.

    Just read that earlier quoted report on tracking Deet through the body. It needs to be washed off the skin. Are hikers really doing much washing? Does that sound safe in the long run?

    "Based on a total of 4996 mosquitoes collected on negative control persons, the overall five hour protection rate was 97.4% [95%CI: 97.1–97.8%], not decreasing over time. Picaridin 20% performed equally well as DEET 20% and better than picaridin 10%." https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4270489/


    I appreciate you linking that Consumer Reports study. This shows that you feel that it provides value. Since that is the case, you should listen to the director of Food Safety from Consumer Reports. "Consumer Reports’ tests have found that some insect repellents, especially those with the chemical DEET, can help keep bugs away. But its safety experts say that the products may also pose risks. “We think that DEET and other chemical-based repellents should be used only if other, safer methods don’t work for you,” says Urvashi Rangan, director of Consumer Reports’ Food Safety and Sustainability Center." from https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...=.1adb42c96441

    To me, that single quote is checkmate against the people who say that DEET prevails over everything. Yes, I've used Deet in the past. Yes it works. No, this should not be your first alternative and the primary repellent that you use. It's also worth noting that the oils that I am using are at full strength, while the commercially available ones just have the oils in it at a lower percentage. There's a big difference between the two, because everyone knows that you need 20 percent or more Deet to really work well. The same is to be said for oils. Also, not every oil is produced the same. Some are higher quality and retain more repelling chemicals due to a better distillation process. If the oil is made with heat, then many more beneficial chemicals can be lost. I'm using cold distilled, oils graded for internal use. That's another sales point in my opinion. I can literally drink my oils. Drinking Deet would be inviting Death to dinner.
    Last edited by Trambo; 01-27-2019 at 11:53.

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    Trambo,if you look on Amazon for Kirkland B complex plus electrolytes you can get 500 for a little less than
    4 cents each,that's a buck twenty per month.

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    Trambo, welcome to WB.

    Mahalo for providing the links and perspectives. It took more than some snippets of random info to arrive at your conclusions.

    For insect repellency it's assumed you're diluting the essential oils in a base. What are you using? I mostly use almond oil as the carrier.

    As you I approach repellency using a multi faceted approach.

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