Suggestion: don’t tent in Tennessee fields of dream.

[tdoczi]

This whole thread is full of confusion and misinformation.

First, there are two Double Springs shelters. One is the Double Spring Gap shelter in the middle of the Smokies and the other is the Double Springs shelter which is about 20 miles south of Damascus. I'm assuming the OP was talking about the latter since all shelters in the Smokies are supposed to have privies.

Second, I never could understand why the TN shelters didn't have privies. It might have made sense 20 or 30 years ago when there fewer hikers but IMO they are desperately needed at all AT shelters today. I always thought the purpose of the AT shelters was to concentrate overnight usage to certain locations so as to minimize impact on the rest of the trail, but then not putting privies in these locations to help manage waste and instead telling hikers to spread out and crap in the woods nearby seems to defeat the purpose.

double springs shelter in the smokies does in fact have a privy, as per the companion, but not all shelters in the smokies do. it can be probably read that the OP was referring to the one in the smokies when he said "we have both" but i still maintain the statement "shelters in TN have no privies" is largely not talking about the ones in GSMNP.

[Dogwood]

Feces encounters are becoming an increasing issue. It's not just human feces either. Feces(humans, horses, cows, mice, rats, etc) issues occur on the AT. The AT is NOT the only place to have these encounters impacting where to camp, obtaining water, health, etc.

Thru the CDT for example. Cattle and cow dung and urine contaminate water, land, and air. Closer to home, thru the AT. You can have personal contact with cows and their excrement. The mud holes, erosion, and contaminated water created are human health hazards. Add that feces to the improperly disposed of human feces that presents a health hazard.

[evyck da fleet]

And we wonder why noro virus seems to pop up as people head into Hot Springs and Erwin. How lazy or tired does one have to be set up a tent in a cat field?

[rmitchell]

And some complain of the permit system and the presence of ridge runners.

[rmitchell]

Construction of a privy is expensive. Those in the Smokies are not put in place or maintained by the park service but by volunteers. I think by a coordinated effort by the ATC, the Smoky Mountain Hiking Club and possibly by Friends of the Smokies as well as equestrians.

The privy at Cosby was constructed off site then disassembled and helicoptered to the site. There was an airlift scheduled for the Spence Field privy today but got scrubbed due to weather.

[Starchild]

As for the Smokies, not all shelters have privies - the ones that don't have a shovel instead and a arrow to point the way. The reason given is 2 fold, the primary one is the maintenance requirement and manpower to do that, which also involved resupplying with duff which is done by horse where allowed. The second reason is that the field method really works well there. The soil is ideal for a very fast breakdown if the hikers cathole correctly.

[JPritch]

$hit is everywhere it appears. Just saw an article today about the high levels of fecal matter on McDonald's touch screens.

I always wondered if the boil water advisories in the Smokies are due to the doo-doo leaching into the soil from the other side of the ridge and getting into the springs??

[tdoczi]

I always wondered if the boil water advisories in the Smokies are due to the doo-doo leaching into the soil from the other side of the ridge and getting into the springs??

is there anywhere anyone has seen ever where it says "this water is so great you don't have to treat or boil it."

"treat or boil water" is standard instruction given everywhere all the time. when it says "dont drink this even if you do treat or boil it" is when you have to worry.

[rmitchell]

As for the Smokies, not all shelters have privies - the ones that don't have a shovel instead and a arrow to point the way. The reason given is 2 fold, the primary one is the maintenance requirement and manpower to do that, which also involved resupplying with duff which is done by horse where allowed. The second reason is that the field method really works well there. The soil is ideal for a very fast breakdown if the hikers cathole correctly.

Good point.

I think there are issues with a composting privy generating enough heat at higher altitudes.

[Ethesis]

Usually have signs

If someone wants to tent in cat field, let them. Theyll figure it out. Ive never not been able to smell one

The signs are carved wood. I guess in March with the sleet and such the smell is subdued.


With the weathering the signs are hard to read (though so far I’ve read them all).

[Ethesis]

This whole thread is full of confusion and misinformation.

First, there are two Double Springs shelters. One is the Double Spring Gap shelter in the middle of the Smokies and the other is the Double Springs shelter which is about 20 miles south of Damascus. I'm assuming the OP was talking about the latter since all shelters in the Smokies are supposed to have privies.

Second, I never could understand why the TN shelters didn't have privies. It might have made sense 20 or 30 years ago when there fewer hikers but IMO they are desperately needed at all AT shelters today. I always thought the purpose of the AT shelters was to concentrate overnight usage to certain locations so as to minimize impact on the rest of the trail, but then not putting privies in these locations to help manage waste and instead telling hikers to spread out and crap in the woods nearby seems to defeat the purpose.

I’m talking the Double Springs south of Gatlinburg and as I said it has both a privy and a sign pointing to the “toilet field” (words on the sign). No shovel.

Next time IMS I will take pictures and screenshot Guthook GPS to confirm I really am in the Smokies (not tonight. Taking a zero in Gatlinburg).

Some of the shelters even have two shovels. Some seem to have none.

Note. I’m only talking about shelters in the Smokies where I’ve personally been, with reservations (worth four dollars each).

[tdoczi]

I’m talking the Double Springs south of Gatlinburg and as I said it has both a privy and a sign pointing to the “toilet field” (words on the sign). No shovel.

Next time IMS I will take pictures and screenshot Guthook GPS to confirm I really am in the Smokies (not tonight. Taking a zero in Gatlinburg).

Some of the shelters even have two shovels. Some seem to have none.

Note. I’m only talking about shelters in the Smokies where I’ve personally been, with reservations (worth four dollars each).

why would a shelter that has a privy also have a designated poop field? on what basis should one choose which one to use?

[Starchild]

why would a shelter that has a privy also have a designated poop field? on what basis should one choose which one to use?

Proper use of the field, if it is the right material/moisture would prolong the life of the privi.

[tdoczi]

Proper use of the field, if it is the right material/moisture would prolong the life of the privi.

well then under what circumstances should one ever elect to use the privy? is it just there for when it rains?

[TNhiker]

Proper use of the field, if it is the right material/moisture would prolong the life of the privi.

since they are the compostable privies------wouldnt it be better to use those?

[Starchild]

since they are the compostable privies------wouldnt it be better to use those?

Compostable privies do what the field does, and without the privi maintenance if the hiker did the right thing. Overused composting privies are also a problem and has to be expanded and the 'throne' moved often which is not a fun job (or multiple thrones installed which look funny but are good for facebook posts). Also the bins have to be shoveled out when this happens. Too frequent use and too much dampness (high humidity, rain and urine can do this) will cause the system to go septic.

I would say the privies are good if one wouldn't use the field, or in the rain, and the field for those who will.

[TNhiker]

I would say the privies are good if one wouldn't use the field, or in the rain, and the field for those who will.

the trouble is, especially in the smokies, is that people dont bury their stuff deep enough.........and there's "toilet blooms" everywhere....

russell field, when i was up there a few year ago----and at the time didnt have a privy (not sure if theres one now)--------was god awful with toilet paper and crap everywhere...

i rather have people use the privy..........

[tdoczi]

Compostable privies do what the field does, and without the privi maintenance if the hiker did the right thing. Overused composting privies are also a problem and has to be expanded and the 'throne' moved often which is not a fun job (or multiple thrones installed which look funny but are good for facebook posts). Also the bins have to be shoveled out when this happens. Too frequent use and too much dampness (high humidity, rain and urine can do this) will cause the system to go septic.

I would say the privies are good if one wouldn't use the field, or in the rain, and the field for those who will.

"if one wouldn't use the field" lol if the field is so much better ecologically then dont give them a choice"

seems to me like the most likely explanation is there once was no privy and then when one got put in no one wanted to be bothered formally making the field not a big pile of poop any longer.

[Starchild]

"if one wouldn't use the field" lol if the field is so much better ecologically then dont give them a choice"

Yes then you get into the situation with the smokies, people don't follow the guidelines and don't bury their waste properly, if at all. Having a privy for these people should cut down on the mess.

seems to me like the most likely explanation is there once was no privy and then when one got put in no one wanted to be bothered formally making the field not a big pile of poop any longer.

I do think it was the field first then the privy was added. However it may not be that no one bothered, they might want some people to still use the field.

[Slo-go'en]

Second, I never could understand why the TN shelters didn't have privies.

Mainly because it takes volunteers to maintain them.