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  1. #121

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    But have we gone too far? Yes, definitely.

  2. #122

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    Quote Originally Posted by Traveler View Post
    Right. So if you are going to use technology, do so unobtrusively (so as not to disturb others nearby).
    That makes all the sense in the world until a widening number of people in a society have serious problematic habits and addictions. It's like advising "Just say No." It's similar to saying to a 500 Lb person you know what you need, you need to eat less and go for a run?

  3. #123
    Registered User foodbag's Avatar
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    I agree - too much technology on the trail, and in our daily lives too (he says as he taps away on his computer). I'm older, and although technology is quite useful, in the wrong hands it can create chaos, and a lot of e-waste too. But, as long as there's money to be made, there will be gadgets available for sale....
    Long-distance aspirations with short-distance feet.... :jump

  4. #124
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    i take care of a property near the smokies. i cycle there often with treats for the hikers at the fontana hilton or at stecoah gap. i always "make deposits" at the fontana hilton restrooms. in the men's restroom, you will see power strips plugged into power strips plugged into power strips with all sorts of gadgets charging.

    even though i'm a millennial and have thru'ed the AT twice, i still don't and won't own a cell phone.

    wyow. because i walk. i don't hike.

  5. #125
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    Nothing wrong with carrying electronic devices, IMHO.
    It only comes down to how you're using it.

    For my kind of hikes, a smartphone running a GPS app basically is a godsend. It replaces a huge load of paper I had to carry earlier, plus gives me way better accuracy and much more information, not to speak about all the other travel-specific goodies a smartphone can provde, like managing flights etc.
    But then, I well remember my first few years of hiking with a smartphone when every time I started to get tired I more and more pulled out the device to follow my progress, just to get more and more frustrated about my slow going. I basically had to learn how to make good use of the smartphone while avoiding all the typical pitfalls of over-using it.
    I believe I'm ready now to handle it properly, and don't see any bad in carrying and using it.

  6. #126

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    Must be an AT thing(?), which I have zero interest in due to its popularity. Only time I've seen some of the stuff mentioned here was on the outer edges of tourist season in the "front country" of popular national parks like Yosemite(holy crap, the Japanese women *lay in the road* and take selfies?!?) and Zion.
    'Course I actively avoid other people. Hardly see other hikers, and when I do, they're usually going the opposite way on the trail. Either way, it's not my place to tell someone else how to enjoy themselves, and I don't really care what they do, as long as it isn't hurting me or the trail-littering, etc.


    Shoot, I want a GoPro and a drone to make cool hiking and mountain biking videos like I see online.
    But I don't want to pay for, carry, or edit footage from, a GoPro and a drone, so alas, internet fame eludes me😥

  7. #127
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    To an extent. Apps like Guthooks have destroyed the adventurous aspect of thru-hiking. Now everyone can just look at their phone and know where every water spot is, tent spot, what every town is like before they get there, where the cool things are, know what each shelter will be like, etc... There's no hidden gems anymore. No mystery. No discovery. Even if you don't use those apps, you'll constantly hear from people that do. It also causes nice spots to become over-crowded as everyone ends up going to the same locations.

  8. #128
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    they're comin' through Damascus now like zombies with their faces buried in devices

  9. #129

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lone Wolf View Post
    they're comin' through Damascus now like zombies with their faces buried in devices
    Drooling zombies.

  10. #130

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dogwood View Post
    Four yrs ago was at the summit of NY's Mt Marcy during a NLPT thru on a beautiful fall weather Sunday. 5 mph warm breeze. Sunny skies. Big puffy clouds perfect for doing cloud surveys. Fall color was at its peak. Bald Eagles and several hawk species were floating on thermals. With a quick count I got to 200 people. They were stumbling into and jostling each other like it was Mon 7 a.m. at the Tokyo Metro Shinjuku Station stop. More than 300 people at the summit. Best guess, about 350. Literally, no exaggeration, a good half of the people had their focus and awareness limited to a 3x5 phone. Many were trying to "take a lonely(Selfie)." I went to the side for a snack and sit down away from the fray where no one was! They walked like Zombie extras in Walking Dead through my food and the place where I was sitting. Several stumbled on on my removed pack. Some never expressed ANY awareness of what they had did. They were all glued to stabbing at their UnSmart mobile computer devices trying to get "connected." There was no reception for anyone! Dozens of people we're saying it - irritated, agitated, selfishly demanding, seeking to manipulate to get what THEY wanted, NEEDED just like the crack heads, detoxing heroin addicts, DTing alcoholics, and meth heads I've seen! Talk about being disconnected, unaware, ignorant, and vain!

    Now, we're going to say it's simply a matter of being mindful of your usage? Give me break!

    Don't get it twisted either. I too go to the trail and wilderness because I too need to detox, to sober up from societal norms.
    There was a young female Adirondack Park Docent, about 18-19 yrs old, in uniform, engaged in light conversation speaking about the Nature and protections of Adirondak Park to about 25 people of different ages, ethnicities, colors, economic status, gender identities, political stances, etc standing in a semi circle around her. We were people of many persuasions, all having a delightful, cordial, and mutually respectful give and take - an actual in person polite discussion. NONE of us had faces glued to a Fartph. What made it difficult for all were constant rude self absorbed indifferent cold unfeeling impolite pushiness from those wanting her to immediately answer where cell reception was available. One husband and wife with their two younger children got into a confrontation with one cell phone wannabe user when one of their children was knocked to the ground as he pushed to the front to ask the Docent about reception. As this was occurring an early 20's couple was shoved by a different cell ph wanna have reception teen PIG with the man getting in her face. Cell ph reception drug of choice mob mentality! The Docent and several of us quieted folks down somewhat. As soon as we did this a 30 something Zombie woman came crashing in almost falling down on her face(she scraped her knee badly) interrupting the polite conversations we were having demanding cell ph reception. This happened about a dozen times in the span of 12-15 minutes.


    NO matter what was politely told and shared with the mobile computer reception disconnected ADDICTS, they all, with the exception of one 19 yr old, went off highly agitated, disrespectful, impolite, self absorbed, some using profanity, with limited focus on accomplishing one task - getting their fix, getting their dopamine rush.



    Now, we're going to say "mind your mobile computer usage?" That comment ignores the nature and power addiction and ingrained habits can have.


    Addiction is a brain disorder characterized by compulsive engagement in rewarding stimuli despite adverse consequences.


    These devices we use(me included in the we!) are powerful stimuli that can lead to compulsive engagement where we become conditioned Pavlov's dogs.

  11. #131
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    Dogwood, you are replying to your own compulsive engagement. Beware of adverse consequences.

  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leo L. View Post
    Nothing wrong with carrying electronic devices, IMHO.
    It only comes down to how you're using it.

    For my kind of hikes, a smartphone running a GPS app basically is a godsend. It replaces a huge load of paper I had to carry earlier, plus gives me way better accuracy and much more information, not to speak about all the other travel-specific goodies a smartphone can provde, like managing flights etc.
    But then, I well remember my first few years of hiking with a smartphone when every time I started to get tired I more and more pulled out the device to follow my progress, just to get more and more frustrated about my slow going. I basically had to learn how to make good use of the smartphone while avoiding all the typical pitfalls of over-using it.
    I believe I'm ready now to handle it properly, and don't see any bad in carrying and using it.

    +1 on breaking yourself of looking at your phone too often. I’ve ‘matured’ to the point of figuring out when I’ll get to my daily destination, then avoiding the phone all day (except maybe for pictures). The water, road, shelter, etc has been there for years and will still be there when you get there.
    76 HawkMtn w/Rangers
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  13. #133

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dogwood View Post
    There was a young female Adirondack Park Docent, about 18-19 yrs old, in uniform, engaged in light conversation speaking about the Nature and protections of Adirondak Park to about 25 people of different ages, ethnicities, colors, economic status, gender identities, political stances, etc standing in a semi circle around her. We were people of many persuasions, all having a delightful, cordial, and mutually respectful give and take - an actual in person polite discussion. NONE of us had faces glued to a Fartph. What made it difficult for all were constant rude self absorbed indifferent cold unfeeling impolite pushiness from those wanting her to immediately answer where cell reception was available. One husband and wife with their two younger children got into a confrontation with one cell phone wannabe user when one of their children was knocked to the ground as he pushed to the front to ask the Docent about reception. As this was occurring an early 20's couple was shoved by a different cell ph wanna have reception teen PIG with the man getting in her face. Cell ph reception drug of choice mob mentality! The Docent and several of us quieted folks down somewhat. As soon as we did this a 30 something Zombie woman came crashing in almost falling down on her face(she scraped her knee badly) interrupting the polite conversations we were having demanding cell ph reception. This happened about a dozen times in the span of 12-15 minutes.


    NO matter what was politely told and shared with the mobile computer reception disconnected ADDICTS, they all, with the exception of one 19 yr old, went off highly agitated, disrespectful, impolite, self absorbed, some using profanity, with limited focus on accomplishing one task - getting their fix, getting their dopamine rush.



    Now, we're going to say "mind your mobile computer usage?" That comment ignores the nature and power addiction and ingrained habits can have.


    Addiction is a brain disorder characterized by compulsive engagement in rewarding stimuli despite adverse consequences.


    These devices we use(me included in the we!) are powerful stimuli that can lead to compulsive engagement where we become conditioned Pavlov's dogs.
    Says the guy with 17,000 posts on a single internet forum.

    A lot of your examples are a general concern with world population. You're talking about easily accessed areas by the general public. Of course they're more crowded, of course they have more problems, simply as result of population. Those places will have more problems with waste disposal, with drunken people, with loud people, with pushy people, with littering people, with selfish people... and yes, more problems with cell phone users as well.

    You're fixating on the wrong issue, to the wrong population. Not one of those pushy people on that mountaintop were part of the White Blaze community. Here, on this forum it's sufficient say "Hike your own hike, with the caveat that you don't make anyone else hike your hike." It's sufficient to say to White Blaze forum members, "Hey, this thing happened, can you try to be more considerate of others?"

    No one is suggesting that addictions are simple things to cure, no one. It's disingenuous to suggest that anyone here proposed that "watch your electronics usage" as a cure for electronics addiction.

    ... also, are you intentionally visiting the most touristy places, and then complaining that they have all the touristy problems? The most popular state park in southern NH, is a decent place overall, but the beach on the lake is a hellish mess, crowded, aggressive beach spreaders, unattended children, litter, it gets closed down quite often for ecoli counts in the water. I avoid the place. Just like I avoid AT shelters next to the road in populous areas.

  14. #134

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    Yeah, says the guy who also said:

    These devices we use(me included in the we!) are powerful stimuli that can lead to compulsive engagement where we become conditioned Pavlov's dogs.


    ...just as I'm a paper map addict with 17K WB BS blog posts.


    I hike to detox,
    that includes from digital and other societal norms.


    Does that sound like someone ignoring their own trail behavior?


    Personally, openly, I'm not disillusioned assuming my personal behavior is defined by always making the ideal decision. I have more shart on the tips of my shoes from putting my own foot up my arse I could start a sewage treatment plant.


    There's a freedom that comes with sobriety. Denial is a self imposed cage that impacts not only ourselves. We all hide behind facades.


    I get it though. Having meaningful constructive discussion about owning personal behavior the facades come up. We don't want to be vulnerable. We most often rather point out other people having their impacts than examining our own.

  15. #135

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dogwood View Post

    I hike to detox, that includes from digital and other societal norms.
    That's really all that needs to be said. While at home in a house I throw in the towel and realize the bittersweet curse of modernity---but when I'm out backpacking I go out to DETOX from home electricity and the home laptop and the online community and all things INTERNET and of course the detested Television (Tele-Derision??) and hot showers and microwaves and a bunch of other stuff.

    And since I don't own a smartphone you'll never see me backpacking with such a device as I don't want to get online EVER when I'm out. And I also happen to have an intimate attachment to paper topo maps.

  16. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dogwood View Post
    This equals "I'm only responsible to myself."


    I'm going to do as I like to do too! Keg party at Perdidocha's living room tonight. We'll all be tenting on your property and taking dirty baths in your swimming pool. Make sure to have your credit card ready to pay for the alcohol and my new DCF shelter. I'll take one of those new BA $1000 Tiger Walls! Order those 20 pizzas ahead of time. 5 veggie specials with roasted eggplant, organic goat Gouda and artichokes. Dont skimp on the artichokes! Pay for extra ya cheapskate. We'll be taking your credit card for that too. And, make sure they're hot when we all arrive and the Heiny kegs and Grey Goose are well chilled.
    Love the way you took my simple statement to the absurd level. Just shows you don't really like the idea of people hiking their own hike. If we aren't like you, I guess we are automatically wrong. You are very dogmatic.
    Time is but the stream I go afishin' in.
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  17. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoshMcR View Post
    To an extent. Apps like Guthooks have destroyed the adventurous aspect of thru-hiking. Now everyone can just look at their phone and know where every water spot is, tent spot, what every town is like before they get there, where the cool things are, know what each shelter will be like, etc... There's no hidden gems anymore. No mystery. No discovery. Even if you don't use those apps, you'll constantly hear from people that do. It also causes nice spots to become over-crowded as everyone ends up going to the same locations.
    Do the print guides not do the same things? Not everybody's view of adventure is the same.
    Time is but the stream I go afishin' in.
    Thoreau

  18. #138
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    Is there too much technology on the Southern part of the AT right now? Yes. Maine? Not so much. I guarantee that if you hike the AT in Virginia during July or August you won't see much technology except your own. During hikes of the AT in 2001 and 2002 I saw plenty of the technology of that time but there wasn't nary a smart phone to be seen. And plenty of people on this forum complained plenty about that technology. Hiking poles were going to destroy every basketball sized rock on the AT with all the scratches they were putting on them. Oh, the horror, as it was predicted that all these granite rocks were going to be whittled down to nothing in just a few years by the onslaught of those hikers stupid enough to use hiking poles. Looked at the tips of your hiking poles recently? The rocks are winning! The technology of Wingfoot's guidebook was a god send back then but I doubt anyone on this forum would use such a primitive tool these days. One of the most advanced tools in 2001 and 02 was the pay phone in each trail town. We stood in long lines for an hour or so to call our loved ones at home for a few minutes. I can't imagine why we don't all want to go back those days. Picture taking? Most hikers used a film camera and we had to haul around extra rolls of film. We never got to see the pictures we took until we left the trail and we never took more than one picture of a scene because we only had so many pictures we could take. I use my smart phone as a tool just as I have used other instruments in past years as tools. No more, no less.

    You want to know what really annoys me? One of those hikers with a backpack guitar!!! The last thing I want to listen to in the wilderness is someone trying to learn how to play one of those out of tune pieces of garbage. And if they do happen to know how to play their precious guitar, they never sing a song anyone would want to hear (like a good country or bluegrass song) but some song you've never heard of before about a leaf in a river floating gently to the ocean.

  19. #139
    Registered User lonehiker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Old Chief View Post
    Is there too much technology on the Southern part of the AT right now? Yes. Maine? Not so much. I guarantee that if you hike the AT in Virginia during July or August you won't see much technology except your own. During hikes of the AT in 2001 and 2002 I saw plenty of the technology of that time but there wasn't nary a smart phone to be seen. And plenty of people on this forum complained plenty about that technology. Hiking poles were going to destroy every basketball sized rock on the AT with all the scratches they were putting on them. Oh, the horror, as it was predicted that all these granite rocks were going to be whittled down to nothing in just a few years by the onslaught of those hikers stupid enough to use hiking poles. Looked at the tips of your hiking poles recently? The rocks are winning! The technology of Wingfoot's guidebook was a god send back then but I doubt anyone on this forum would use such a primitive tool these days. One of the most advanced tools in 2001 and 02 was the pay phone in each trail town. We stood in long lines for an hour or so to call our loved ones at home for a few minutes. I can't imagine why we don't all want to go back those days. Picture taking? Most hikers used a film camera and we had to haul around extra rolls of film. We never got to see the pictures we took until we left the trail and we never took more than one picture of a scene because we only had so many pictures we could take. I use my smart phone as a tool just as I have used other instruments in past years as tools. No more, no less.

    You want to know what really annoys me? One of those hikers with a backpack guitar!!! The last thing I want to listen to in the wilderness is someone trying to learn how to play one of those out of tune pieces of garbage. And if they do happen to know how to play their precious guitar, they never sing a song anyone would want to hear (like a good country or bluegrass song) but some song you've never heard of before about a leaf in a river floating gently to the ocean.
    I would probably like this guy if I met him in person.
    Lonehiker

  20. #140

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    I like all the old ways of doing things. The newer "smartphones" are a detour and a dead end IMO.

    You can't go too far wrong with natural, healthy and traditional.


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