Finding outlets to charge along the trail

[Traveler]

That is correct. If you are going to use any services a business makes publicly available, then be nice and buy something. I do that. But to be honest, if only half the people who visit buy something a business owner can still become wealthy. They already know that.

As has been said in this thread, asking first is just good manners as opposed to the entitlement mentality. There has been many comments and threads on this forum of poor hiker behavior along the AT which tends to lower public opinion. A simple gesture like asking permission to use an outlet at a business costs nothing, will likely grant you access immediately, and improves public opinion.

Morals differ greatly in society. If one's moral philosophy is power doesn't cost much so it's ok to simply take it where an outlet is seen in a business, then thats where the moral compass points. Brings to mind an old adage, "Lay with dogs, wake up with their fleas".

[peakbagger]

I have heard from a couple of folks where individuals unplugged appliances to charge their phones and of course didn't plug them back in again. Wasn't a cell phone but former friends daughter decided to unplug the freezer to plug in a boom box. Two or three days later they had freezer full of meat rotting.

[FreeGoldRush]

A simple gesture like asking permission to use an outlet at a business costs nothing.

Keep in mind that you were indicating the cost of power was significant. So is the cost of an employee's time not? At $10/hour if the employee can answer 500 questions per hour, then let's say it costs 2 cents to ask. That is 20 times more than the cost of charging your phone.

it sounds silly to do this analysis. So I hope we finally agree that the cost of the power is not the issue.

Like you said, it boils down to "be nice" and nothing more.

[4eyedbuzzard]

My point of bringing up the negligible costs involved wasn't to minimize what I agree is rude and presumptive behavior that also casts a poor light on the "hiking community". It was just to put it in perspective from a "crime" standpoint as there's just not enough "injury" IMO to warrant that term. And whether we like it or not, societal norms have changed some since many of us were raised. But, that's not an absolute. I'm sure many of us raised our now adult children to ask first. But, unfortunately, not everybody did it seems. Some obviously also wander from those more traditional values we tried to instill. So, rude? Yes. Presumptive? Yes. Criminal? It's a stretch. There are are few reported incidents of arrests for "theft of services" for charging phones. Mostly involving homeless people, and of course, travelers. But of the ones I could find, prosecutors dropped the charges in all the cases. There were some prosecutions of people who refused to stop after being told to, but most of those then escalated into trespassing cases.

My take on all of it? Again, apply the "reasonable person" standard - on BOTH sides of the equation - hiker AND business owner. Public use receptacles are popping up everywhere these days - food establishments, transportation terminals, truck stops, etc. People are broadly starting to assume that if receptacles are out in the open, they can use them to charge their phone. Often no one asks permission as it's obvious why they are there. So if it's out in the open, some people may assume it's okay, just like so many other places. Is it presumptive? In my mind, often it is. But I can see where sometimes it might not be so clear. For hikers, when in any doubt, asking first is always the polite way to go. For business owners, if you have a receptacle in plain sight that might be assumed to be available but you don't want used, put a little Dymo label on the cover saying "Not for public use", or better yet "No phone charging!". A cheap little warning often goes a long way.

[Alligator]

It's pretty common in retail to have employees greet customers as well as answer customers' questions, encouraged in fact. I would guess that it works out in the business owners favor given the prevalence I see it practiced. Another reason to ask though is that the hiker just sees the outlet. The employee/owner sees the outlet in the business space and may not want a customer charging right there. It might be a tripping hazard, could be blocking an aisle or display, might be in a server path, dead outlet, might prefer you were eating ice cream out on the porch so other hikers know there's ice cream inside, etc. The outlet might just be there for electrical code reasons or even a specific purpose (other than charging if unlabeled).

Really though just buy something, you just came out of the woods. No income the service goes away.

[Traveler]

Keep in mind that you were indicating the cost of power was significant. So is the cost of an employee's time not? At $10/hour if the employee can answer 500 questions per hour, then let's say it costs 2 cents to ask. That is 20 times more than the cost of charging your phone.

it sounds silly to do this analysis. So I hope we finally agree that the cost of the power is not the issue.

Like you said, it boils down to "be nice" and nothing more.

Actually it's about a moral compass. Not taking things can be quickly avoided by asking first. Like I said.