Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 46
  1. #21
    Registered User
    Join Date
    08-08-2012
    Location
    Taghkanic, New York, United States
    Posts
    3,023
    Journal Entries
    11

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Traveler View Post
    Having seen some particularly brazen power theft from businesses over the past few years, ...
    What is a example of "particularly brazen power theft". Just curious.

  2. #22
    Registered User
    Join Date
    09-06-2008
    Location
    Andrews, NC
    Age
    61
    Posts
    3,650

    Default

    The Fontana Hilton does have a solar powerd cell phone charging station provided by TVA. Last time I was there, it was occupied by several lazy wasps. Apparently, they have a need for electricity too.

  3. #23

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Traveler View Post
    Having seen some particularly brazen power theft from businesses over the past few years, the best advice is to always ask to charge....
    Using the national average for retail power costs, charging an iPhone costs slightly more than 1/10th of one cent. I'd argue that your muddy footprints left on the floor of that business you went into are far more costly than the "brazen power theft". 😀

  4. #24
    Registered User Venchka's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-20-2013
    Location
    Upper East Side of Texas
    Age
    73
    Posts
    8,313

    Default

    Carry enough hardware to charge the phone and the extra battery from a single outlet simultaneously.
    That would be 1/2 of a standard dual wall outlet.
    Wayne

  5. #25

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Starchild View Post
    What is a example of "particularly brazen power theft". Just curious.
    It's done by the same people who brazenly thieve four Sugar in the Raw packets from Starbucks.

  6. #26

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 4eyedbuzzard View Post
    While one should always have permission to charge a phone or other device (people should definitely not assume it's okay without asking), if I were a store owner, I would gladly let everyone charge their phone if they made even the purchase of a single Coke (with about a 50 cent profit). In fact, if I had a trail business that catered to hikers, I'd set up charging stations to entice them to stay and shop/consume. The cost of electricity to fully charge a 3000 mAh phone battery assuming an 80% charger efficiency and electric rates of .12/kWh would typically be about 2/100th of a cent. Maybe 1/10th of a cent for a big Anker backup battery. If they bought just a few things while waiting, I'd be way ahead.

    EDIT:
    For those interested, here's the math for an approximately 3000mAh phone battery (a newer Android or iPhone) assuming a 5 volt, 80% efficiency charger (most are in the 80-90% range).
    Volts (V) x Amps (A) = Power (Watts). [Calculations assume unity power factor for the electrical types among us].

    5V x 3000mAh = 15000mWh [this is the theoretical power storage capacity of the battery - it's actually less as battery voltage at full charge is more in the 3.7 to 4.2 volt range, but 5 makes for easier math]
    15000 mWh / .80 = 18750mWh [80% efficiency - the power needed to charge the battery is greater due to losses in the charger and battery circuit - mostly as heat]
    18750mWh / 1000 = 18.75Wh [convert milliwatt hours to watt hours]
    18.75Wh / 1000 = .01875 kWh [convert watt hours to kilowatt hours]
    .01875 kWh x $0.12/kWh = $0.00225 [the electric bill at U.S. average of $0.12 per kWh]
    Absolutely agree it would be good business to let people charge if they purchase something, in fact were it my store I might think of advertising, "Free charge up with purchase" and consider putting a charging bar in. People are reluctant to leave their electronics and would grow hungry or bored after a while and likely purchase more. Much as bars offer free salty snacks to spur beer sales. My point was more in line with yours, asking first as opposed to just plugging into an outlet.

  7. #27

    Default

    Buy something, charge something.
    The issue is not the cost of the electricity, it's buying something without asking. It's like using someone else's wifi, splitting off your neighbor's cable, or taking 50 hotsauce packets to fuel your later hikes. Those things aren't yours to take.

  8. #28
    Registered User
    Join Date
    02-04-2013
    Location
    New Orleans
    Posts
    4,043

    Default

    It's just good manners to ask permission to charge. I've never had anyone say no.

    One approach I take if I know that I'll be recharging in public places is to take a small battery pack (mine is 3 ounces) and leave that to charge rather than my phone. I'd rather lose a $15 battery pack than a $300 phone. I then charge my phone from the battery pack. This saves a lot of time in certain situations where I'd otherwise feel compelled to babysit my phone while it is charging.

  9. #29

    Default

    Soon we'll have battery powered robots carrying our packs and then the question Where To Charge? will dominant 95% of all future Whiteblaze posts.

  10. #30

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Coffee View Post
    It's just good manners to ask permission to charge. I've never had anyone say no.
    One approach I take if I know that I'll be recharging in public places is to take a small battery pack (mine is 3 ounces) and leave that to charge rather than my phone. I'd rather lose a $15 battery pack than a $300 phone. I then charge my phone from the battery pack. This saves a lot of time in certain situations where I'd otherwise feel compelled to babysit my phone while it is charging.
    The flip side of this is that mid-hike, someone else's locked phone is useless to you, while a 10k power brick that looks like every other brick is a quick and easy steal.

  11. #31

    Default

    There's an industry fencing phones. It exists because they get around the locks. They can be unlocked or resold. Even if a petty ignorant thief was to steal my locked ph because I left it somewhere unattended prone to theft by the time they might have found it was locked they'd dispose of it somewhere else. It would still be gone but I'd still look around nearby. Unattended phones locked or unlocked are targeted by thieves.

  12. #32
    4eyedbuzzard's Avatar
    Join Date
    01-02-2007
    Location
    DFW, TX / Northern NH
    Age
    63
    Posts
    7,903
    Images
    27

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AllDownhillFromHere View Post
    Buy something, charge something.
    The issue is not the cost of the electricity, it's buying something without asking. It's like using someone else's wifi, splitting off your neighbor's cable, or taking 50 hotsauce packets to fuel your later hikes. Those things aren't yours to take.
    Just out of curiosity though, and to play Devil's Advocate, would anyone ask first, or even think twice about refilling their water bottles in the bathroom at a gas station or store? "Excuse me sir, do you mind if I fill up my water bottles while using the bathroom?" Not a question likely to be asked. As with the electricity to charge a phone, the water is of negligible cost, but both the water and electricity are the property of the owner and while minuscule in cost, neither are free. The intent of the water being there is to wash your hands and comply with health regs, not refill your bottles. A gallon of tap water is similar in cost to recharging one's phone (average US water costs are about $1.50 per 1000 gal). The power used to dry your hands under the electric hand dryer for 30 seconds is also about the same as to charge a phone. So if I don't use the hand dryer, is it okay to take the water? Or perhaps to charge my phone? The cost to the owner is neutral. The only differences are in assumed access, visibility of the act, and intended usage of those items rather than the value or cost - it's more just current cultural practice than anything else. As electronic devices and batteries become even more ingrained in society (hard to believe, but just wait...), access to minor electrical charging will likely become culturally more of an assumed practice, much as we currently assume access to small amounts of water. Note all the recharge stations in public places and establishments catching up with drinking fountains, which are actually declining, not due to cost or water shortages, but due to the lure of generating revenue from selling bottled water. But that's another rant...

    Condiment packets are a bit different from a money standpoint, and surprisingly much more expensive at average 2 cents each. Stealing 50 represent a full $1. While we can hopefully agree that stealing 50 is over the top, what if I take 8 but wind up only using 4, and use the others on the trail? How guilty should I feel? Some people probable take and use 8. Some take none. I think as long as you're reasonable about such things, you should be able to sleep at night and not work yourself up into a moral dilemma.
    Last edited by 4eyedbuzzard; 04-07-2019 at 15:03.

  13. #33

    Default

    If your 10000 battery will accept quick charge, buy a quick charge charger (the plug). That will shorten your recharge time.

  14. #34
    Registered User
    Join Date
    04-13-2014
    Location
    Traverse City, MI
    Posts
    107

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Traveler View Post
    Absolutely agree it would be good business to let people charge if they purchase something, in fact were it my store I might think of advertising, "Free charge up with purchase" and consider putting a charging bar in. People are reluctant to leave their electronics and would grow hungry or bored after a while and likely purchase more. Much as bars offer free salty snacks to spur beer sales. My point was more in line with yours, asking first as opposed to just plugging into an outlet.
    Can hear it now, "Will that be cash or charge?"
    "Both, please."


    I think you can also extend battery life by turning off any extra running background apps. You don't want useless things attempting to update themselves every time you have service, etc. I carry a small solar charger that can also be charged from a micro USB. Not a huge capacity, but it's something, and for the lunch stop or campsite with sun, it can recharge. I also carry another small aux battery that only charges from micro USB.

  15. #35
    Registered User
    Join Date
    12-28-2015
    Location
    Bad Ischl, Austria
    Age
    62
    Posts
    1,204

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Traveler View Post
    Absolutely agree it would be good business to let people charge if they purchase something, in fact were it my store I might think of advertising, "Free charge up with purchase" and consider putting a charging bar in. People are reluctant to leave their electronics and would grow hungry or bored after a while and likely purchase more...
    Saw exactly this kind of business when crossing the border into Israel:
    A airconditioned room, rows of chairs, free Wifi, free charging (lots of dangling USB cables of all kinds), and a row of snacks&drinks machines.
    You can be sure Israelis won't provide the services if they wouldn't get a good return.

    BTW, I got 4 days of GPS tracking out of my phone's battery. Just looking at the app for orientation, the battery would last up to 10 days.
    People who need to charge daily sure hang in the Internet all time.
    Last edited by Leo L.; 04-08-2019 at 04:03.

  16. #36

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Starchild View Post
    What is a example of "particularly brazen power theft". Just curious.
    Walking into a store, looking for an outlet, plugging in, walking out and coming back later. Having seen this a few times, I find that particularly brazen.

  17. #37

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FreeGoldRush View Post
    Using the national average for retail power costs, charging an iPhone costs slightly more than 1/10th of one cent. I'd argue that your muddy footprints left on the floor of that business you went into are far more costly than the "brazen power theft". 
    If several hundred people did this, costs can become a concern, however taking something without asking is stealing, regardless of the value. By this argument, you'd be more concerned about the mud I track into your house to get keys to your car and drive off for an hour without your permission. Its only a gallon of fuel after all....

    Frankly I am a little surprised people defend this saying the value of the theft is small. Perhaps understanding the damage is less economic than in the impressions left in the wake of a season where this type of thing may happen routinely. Lowering public opinion is pretty easy, maintaining a good impression or improving it takes a bit more effort. And that... costs nothing.

  18. #38

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Traveler View Post
    If several hundred people did this, costs can become a concern, however taking something without asking is stealing, regardless of the value.
    As a business owner myself I can assure you that the concern over 1/10 of one cent per cell phone charge is absolutely out of context with what it takes to run a business. You are misunderstsnding the mindset of a small business owner. To succeed you must provide value to your customers and you MUST keep all things in context.

    If all it takes is 1/10th of a penny to get someone in the door it's a no brainer.

    These small businesses live for the purpose of getting hundreds of people through their front door. They pay for the lights you use, the air codnitioning you enjoy, and the floor you walk on. They pay for the smiling employee behind the counter. They do this because most people who walk through their door spend money. With the tens of thousands in costs to get potential customers to show up, the ability to charge an iPhone is the least costly and possibly one of the most attractive reasons to visit.
    If some misguided business owner doesn't want outlets in public places being used, then it is easy enough to put the little child protective plugs in them. This would be the same cranky business owner that has five handwritten signs on the door and 3 more in your face at the counter, each telling you what you cannot do. You may have noticed these businesses don't remain open long after starting the "handwritten sign trantrum" begins.

    if you are concerned about the 1/10th of a cent cost to them, then are you equally concerned about making eye contact with an employee or speaking to them? Doing so is a cost to the business, who pays those people to interact with you. Are you concerned about leaving finger prints on the door you came through, that someone will have to wash? Did you heat the air conditioned room a little with your presence or door opening?

    And did you consider the fact that asking an employee if it is Ok to charge a phone actually costs them more than the cost of charging a phone???

    All things in context.

  19. #39

    Join Date
    05-05-2011
    Location
    state of confusion
    Posts
    9,869
    Journal Entries
    1

    Default

    Its not the cost
    Its the loitering of smelly non customers
    And the self centered , disrespectable ones that think they can just do it without asking

    No shortage of places for paying customers to plug in

  20. #40

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MuddyWaters View Post
    Its not the cost
    Its the loitering of smelly non customers
    And the self centered , disrespectable ones that think they can just do it without asking
    No shortage of places for paying customers to plug in
    That is correct. If you are going to use any services a business makes publicly available, then be nice and buy something. I do that. But to be honest, if only half the people who visit buy something a business owner can still become wealthy. They already know that.

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 1 2 3 LastLast
++ New Posts ++

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •