Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 1 2
Results 21 to 31 of 31
  1. #21

    Join Date
    05-05-2011
    Location
    state of confusion
    Posts
    9,869
    Journal Entries
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverbirchHiker View Post
    I agree. Demand not being strong enough is part of what starts that downward spiral.
    I just saw that downward spiral going on. I think if you go into an outfitter store and they have a really limited selection, it's going to turn you away. Then, word gets out--- It's not worth going there.
    Compared to the internet, most selections are pretty darn limited today. And most pricing at brick-and-mortar stores is not competitive with larger volume online distributors.

    I don't mind paying a few percent more for an item to buy it in a store. But 20,30,50% more ? well the stores just going to have to go out of business. It's trying to ream the customer to stay afloat that's the problem often. Poor business management choices, expensive real estate. It starts a vicious downward spiral.

    Unless you need something and need it now, or need to see it in person to decide, brick-and-mortar is really tough to have a future in. even the stores near me that were very well-stocked outdoor type stores 20 years ago... Really don't offer anything I want today. And I certainly don't want to spend all day driving around to different stores trying to find and compare prices. Those days are over.

    hell I remember when I used to have to drive to different cities to do that. It was nothing to drive a couple hundred miles to visit a store to see things that you only saw in catalogs otherwise. 30 yrs ago, Lots of people used to take these driving vacations to go up to Springfield Missouri to visit Bass pro shops. People drove 1000 miles round trip, or more, just to see things in a store that they couldn't see at home. Today just a few clicks of a mouse gives you the same thing.
    Last edited by MuddyWaters; 05-07-2019 at 21:33.

  2. #22
    Registered User Reverse's Avatar
    Join Date
    03-31-2017
    Location
    Papakura NZ
    Age
    58
    Posts
    60
    Images
    1

    Default

    That means there is a very long stretch without any outfitters. EMS is closed in Pittsfield MA. So maybe we can get one started in like Great Barrington or Dalton

  3. #23
    Registered User
    Join Date
    06-18-2010
    Location
    NJ
    Age
    43
    Posts
    3,133
    Images
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverse View Post
    That means there is a very long stretch without any outfitters. EMS is closed in Pittsfield MA. So maybe we can get one started in like Great Barrington or Dalton
    or you know, just order something from REI on your smart phone and itll be at the next PO before you get there.

    and then if you're unscrupulous you return it and get a refund when youre done hiking. hard deal to beat.

  4. #24
    4eyedbuzzard's Avatar
    Join Date
    01-02-2007
    Location
    DFW, TX / Northern NH
    Age
    63
    Posts
    7,944
    Images
    27

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverse View Post
    That means there is a very long stretch without any outfitters. EMS is closed in Pittsfield MA. So maybe we can get one started in like Great Barrington or Dalton
    EMS being closed in Pittsfield is all the market feasability research that's needed. Someone would be spending a lot of money buying themselves a job with long hours and low pay.
    Last edited by 4eyedbuzzard; 05-08-2019 at 21:31.

  5. #25

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverse View Post
    That means there is a very long stretch without any outfitters. EMS is closed in Pittsfield MA. So maybe we can get one started in like Great Barrington or Dalton
    I really like the Arcadian Outdoor Shop in Lenox. Their staff is friendly and super-knowledgeable. Prices can be high though as with most stores of that sort.
    There's also a cafe there.

    It's off trail so long-distance hikers would have to go way out of the way to get there. Plenty of towns to re-supply in w/o trekking here (10+ miles to get to it). But, it's on that main Route 7 corridor.

  6. #26

    Default

    It looks like the store that was near the intersection of Rt7 is closed and there is some type of outfitter now in one of the shops near art galleries, etc..

    I bought the new "backpacking" tent that Walmart put out for under $50. Kind of heavy at 5# but definitely an improvement from their dome tents.

    I can't afford most of the outfitters. You have to pay twice as much usually than online or big stores. As long as most of their stuff is coming from China why should I patronize smaller stores for higher ticket items?


  7. #27
    Registered User
    Join Date
    01-25-2013
    Location
    Upstate NY
    Age
    44
    Posts
    436

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 4eyedbuzzard View Post
    EMS being closed in Pittsfield is all the market feasability research that's needed. Someone would be spending a lot of money buying themselves a job with long hours and low pay.
    That closing may have been caused by outside forces (EMS as a chain has had issues and closed stores due to that, plus the mall they were in has been closed several times in the last year or two due to the owner not paying taxes, power and/or water bills).

    Quote Originally Posted by greenmtnboy View Post
    I can't afford most of the outfitters. You have to pay twice as much usually than online or big stores. As long as most of their stuff is coming from China why should I patronize smaller stores for higher ticket items?
    It probably depends on what and when you need it - if you are out hiking and something is going bad, it might be simpler to pay a bit more to get it immediately at a store than to order it and be stuck somewhere waiting for it (or have it shipped extremely fast and wind up paying as much as the store by the time you pay the expedited shipping cost).

  8. #28
    Registered User
    Join Date
    06-18-2010
    Location
    NJ
    Age
    43
    Posts
    3,133
    Images
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BillyGr View Post
    That closing may have been caused by outside forces (EMS as a chain has had issues and closed stores due to that, plus the mall they were in has been closed several times in the last year or two due to the owner not paying taxes, power and/or water bills).



    It probably depends on what and when you need it - if you are out hiking and something is going bad, it might be simpler to pay a bit more to get it immediately at a store than to order it and be stuck somewhere waiting for it (or have it shipped extremely fast and wind up paying as much as the store by the time you pay the expedited shipping cost).
    option A- i can have REI overnight this item i need desperately to the post office in the town i'll be in tomorrow

    option B- when i get to town tomorrow I hope the outfitter has this thing I need.

    which do you chose?

    theres a reason why these stores are failing. its fun watching reality attempt to be denied.

  9. #29
    4eyedbuzzard's Avatar
    Join Date
    01-02-2007
    Location
    DFW, TX / Northern NH
    Age
    63
    Posts
    7,944
    Images
    27

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BillyGr View Post
    That closing may have been caused by outside forces (EMS as a chain has had issues and closed stores due to that, plus the mall they were in has been closed several times in the last year or two due to the owner not paying taxes, power and/or water bills).
    Sports Direct bought Eastern Outfitters, the parent company of Bob's and EMS out of bankruptcy. But that sale was predicated on the closing of locations that weren't profitable. Pittsfield was one of those. The mall they were in was also deserted by Macys and Best Buy prior to the EMS agreement, and JCPenny and Payless also announcing they were leaving roughly at the same time as the EMS deal. Sears, of course, is gone now too. So, it's not a surprise that there have been utility and tax delinquencies when anchor stores like Macys and Best Buy and JCPenny leave. When they do, they stop driving traffic, and it usually spells death for the smaller specialty retailers, even ones like EMS.



    It probably depends on what and when you need it - if you are out hiking and something is going bad, it might be simpler to pay a bit more to get it immediately at a store than to order it and be stuck somewhere waiting for it (or have it shipped extremely fast and wind up paying as much as the store by the time you pay the expedited shipping cost).
    Yeah, but again, small mom and pop retailers can't afford to maintain the high level of inventory necessary to fulfill such needs without a large customer base. Carrying inventory is costly, in terms of interest expense, floor space, and overhead. A store with EMS levels of inventory has to sell tens of millions of dollars in product each year to be profitable. Marginal locations have been eaten alive by internet shopping, which includes competition from their own corporate internet sales divisions. A small mom and pop outfitter simply can't offer the number of choices nor maintain inventory nor compete against big online retailers who get volume discounts, favorable inventory terms, and can deliver your purchase quickly - next day and 2nd day delivery are available almost everywhere. It's not that online retailing is a more profitable percentage model, in fact the margins are smaller than traditional B&M due to the high level of competition. Profit margins aren't as big as most think they are. Gross margins on outdoor gear may be 35%-40%, but after operating expenses 10% is really good BEFORE interest and taxes. 5% is probably more the reality for most. You need to sell many millions in gear to make it worth investing in.

    A million in sales at average $200 per item (say it's shoes, or a pack, or a sleeping bag, or tent, or ??? is about 14 items per day average for the 360 days per year you are open (and likely at your store for most of them). You'll take a modest minimum salary and have $50K in profit to show for it. But wait, you either either financed the store , or you're losing out on other potential earnings AND you are putting in your time and energy - the opportunity costs. And, let's face it, you aren't going to sell 14 big items per day out of store in Kent, CT. It's just a no win unless you are big enough to compete or have a great location and customer base. Small town small time outfitter business just isn't profitable anymore unless there is enough volume or it's so unique you can charge what the market will bear.

  10. #30
    Registered User sketcher709's Avatar
    Join Date
    03-18-2013
    Location
    Princeton, MA
    Age
    53
    Posts
    71

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tdoczi View Post
    i met the owner in 2010, he shuttled me. they were just about dead then, not sure how they lasted 9 more years. not surprised to hear they stopped selling shoes. he complained specifically that people came in to shop and try them on and then went home to order them online, never bought them
    It kills me when people ask about gear and others advocate doing just this, going ot the store and trying everything on or out then going home and buying online. Do people not realize this kind of behavior will put places out of business? I guess they don't care as ling as 'they' get a good deal. It's all about me,me,me.

  11. #31
    Registered User sketcher709's Avatar
    Join Date
    03-18-2013
    Location
    Princeton, MA
    Age
    53
    Posts
    71

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MuddyWaters View Post
    Compared to the internet, most selections are pretty darn limited today. And most pricing at brick-and-mortar stores is not competitive with larger volume online distributors.

    I don't mind paying a few percent more for an item to buy it in a store. But 20,30,50% more ? well the stores just going to have to go out of business. It's trying to ream the customer to stay afloat that's the problem often. Poor business management choices, expensive real estate. It starts a vicious downward spiral.

    Unless you need something and need it now, or need to see it in person to decide, brick-and-mortar is really tough to have a future in. even the stores near me that were very well-stocked outdoor type stores 20 years ago... Really don't offer anything I want today. And I certainly don't want to spend all day driving around to different stores trying to find and compare prices. Those days are over.

    hell I remember when I used to have to drive to different cities to do that. It was nothing to drive a couple hundred miles to visit a store to see things that you only saw in catalogs otherwise. 30 yrs ago, Lots of people used to take these driving vacations to go up to Springfield Missouri to visit Bass pro shops. People drove 1000 miles round trip, or more, just to see things in a store that they couldn't see at home. Today just a few clicks of a mouse gives you the same thing.
    It is possible these days to check online to see what stores have and then go to that store to shop but in any event your comments above are untrue and inaccurate. The cost of carrying a brick and mortar business is more than the "few percent" than you think and the thought that they are trying to "ream the customer" is pretty short sighted and offensive to those families that try to make something of a living and support their families. You obviously don't care to support local business and that is your prerogative, we will all just have to get used to the fact that at some point we will no longer have the stores to go to in order to touch things before we buy them. Too bad for those of us that prefer to support local businesses.

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 1 2
++ New Posts ++

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •