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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4eyedbuzzard View Post
    So, it was just coincidence that KL sensed something was wrong? No, it wasn't coincidence. It was gut instinct. He didn't belong. Something wasn't right with this picture. People "profile" other people every day. Day in, day out. We all do it. Every. Breathing. Person. Even you. We can play a PC game and label it part of "unconscious bias". We can pretend to ignore it. But it never goes away. It's a survival instinct. The best we can do is to recognize it and not apply it in situations where it clearly isn't fair, such as in the workplace or legal system. But when it comes down to personal security, only a fool wouldn't trust his own instincts.
    I agree totally. My guess is that you've read "A gift of fear" by Gavin de Becker. We have to trust our guts when it comes to people.
    Time is but the stream I go afishin' in.
    Thoreau

  2. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by perdidochas View Post
    Not really. There are some diagnostic symptoms. Sores on their face and bodies, rotting teeth, for example.

    https://www.narconon.org/drug-abuse/...-meth-use.html
    I'm a physician and I take care of many folks who pick their skin excessively and some also have very poor teeth. Not all of them are meth addicts. Some have mental illness not related to drug use.

  3. #43

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    Don't count on ATC's incident reporting page. Over the last couple of years I reported two trail misuse/vandalism issues. I never got an acknowledgement on one and they apparently never took action to address the issues. One is still an issue - three years later. I had begun to suspect that they do a better job of self-promotion than trail administration and this pretty much confirmed it for me. I let my membership lapse.

    If a hiker encounters people that appear to be threatening, its better to handle it locally by avoiding a confrontation and notifying local law enforcement. Let them handle it.

  4. #44
    ME => GA 19AT3 rickb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trailmercury View Post
    I'm a physician and I take care of many folks who pick their skin excessively and some also have very poor teeth. Not all of them are meth addicts. Some have mental illness not related to drug use.

    When in doubt hike on out.

  5. #45
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    Keep in mind that there is only one Ranger assigned to the AT, commonly referred to as the Lone Ranger, for obvious reasons. The joke is that the ranger district is 2200 miles long and 100 yards wide. Back when the AT Ranger was stationed at Boiling Springs, PA, the Ranger at that time actually did foot patrols with me. Now the Ranger is stationed at Harper's Ferry WV. The NPS Rangers and ATC trailrunners usually contact local LE when they receive info about untoward activities. My goal is to make sure everyone using the AT on the state lands I patrol has a safe, enjoyable, and law-abiding experience. When I'm not busy catching poachers, that is.

  6. #46
    ME => GA 19AT3 rickb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Game Warden View Post
    My goal is to make sure everyone using the AT on the state lands I patrol has a safe, enjoyable, and law-abiding experience. When I'm not busy catching poachers, that is.
    Is your reality anything close to what you see on “Northwoods Law”? The way those guys are portrayed dealing with people of all stripes is rather remarkable. Even if some of it is crafted for TV, the show has made me appreciate what game wardens do and how they would deal with situations discussed in this thread in real life.

  7. #47

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    Don't Game Wardens now prefer to be called "Conservation Officers"?

    I believe that's what they are called by their own agencies.

  8. #48
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    When I hike alone, I greet heartily every hiker I come into contact with. Why? Just being nice? Partly yes. But I also want to gauge their reply to me. If they do not reply or can't look me in the eye, I become cautious. Not scared but cautious because they could also just by shy.

    99% of the time the people you meet in the woods are quality. But the other 1% you can quickly tell something is off. It is more a reading of body language than actual profiling. Either way, I try to make some distance.

  9. #49
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    Some people will do anything to twist a story and make it look like people are "profiling"

    like we live in some fairy tale world

    "if you see something say something" …… but wait a minute, somebody might get offended your profiling and jumping to conclusions - so that means all should assume that all is safe and good and take no action so nobody will get offended.
    NoDoz
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  10. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by LazyLightning View Post
    Some people will do anything to twist a story and make it look like people are "profiling"

    like we live in some fairy tale world

    "if you see something say something" …… but wait a minute, somebody might get offended your profiling and jumping to conclusions - so that means all should assume that all is safe and good and take no action so nobody will get offended.
    Have any arrests been made? has anybody been assaulted or threatened? Have huge caches of "meth" been confiscated?

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by LazyLightning View Post
    Some people will do anything to twist a story and make it look like people are "profiling"

    like we live in some fairy tale world

    "if you see something say something" …… but wait a minute, somebody might get offended your profiling and jumping to conclusions - so that means all should assume that all is safe and good and take no action so nobody will get offended.
    One problem with profiling is that we don’t do it as well as we could.

    Part of the reason is that any discussion on how to do this better is considered taboo in polite circles and on the web.

    Some commonalities seen in the great majority of the most serious crime to have occurred on the AT include:


    • Perp was a lone white male
    • Perp first engaged his victims at a shelter
    • Perp engaged individual or couple hiking outside of NOBO bubble
    • Perp was not well outfitted with gear
    • Perp was a local or drifter — not a hiker


    I am sure the ATC could provide other things in common as well, if they were so inclined.

    While I would definitely be extra cautious around any rough looking group, be they meth heads, bikers or drunks setting off fire crackers all night, I think history shows that the real risks come from a different profile.

    But I could be wrong about that — this is not something that is much talked about.

    Not sure when one should call the police but that would be after the fact anyway. When in doubt hike on out, right?

    That part is easy.

    Unless you assume ownership of the trial and your God given right to stick around regardless — because the creepy man who just chatted you and your partner up is a little guy and is “probably” just a low IQ loser (or is a good person with mental health issues) down on his luck — or some such thing. Which would not be very smart in certain scenarios.

  12. #52
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    my post was meant towards todays society in general and everybody pointing fingers for doing/saying anything the mainstream doesn't believe to be 'correct'. Everything is racial, prejudice, profiling, sexist to the point of calling out music, shows and cartoons from decades ago. I know I look homeless when I'm on a hike but I sure wouldn't consider it profiling or be offended if anyone thought I was. Sometimes I hike smaller trail systems with my full pack to stay used to the weight, if some local home owner was concerned I wouldn't go knocking them for "profiling". If there's a concern about some particular people and they aren't doing anything wrong then they should have no problem talking to a ranger or authority who wanted to see what they were up to. What's the problem with looking into a situation without getting all these profiling fingers pointed at you?

    Camping at a water source for multiple days doesn't seem to be a concern to anybody, right? is that profiling or is it socially incorrect to look into that to?

    anyway my point was I wasn't referring directly to this case
    NoDoz
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  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by trailmercury View Post
    I'm a physician and I take care of many folks who pick their skin excessively and some also have very poor teeth. Not all of them are meth addicts. Some have mental illness not related to drug use.
    Either way, they are people that you should be cautious of.
    Time is but the stream I go afishin' in.
    Thoreau

  14. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by perdidochas View Post
    Either way, they are people that you should be cautious of.
    I'll decide who "I" should be cautious around.
    I'm pretty good at being cautious.
    I just disagree with judging folks based on appearance alone.
    I'm getting more pushback from the other side of that argument than I had hoped for here.
    That bums me out.

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by trailmercury View Post
    I'm a physician and I take care of many folks who pick their skin excessively and some also have very poor teeth. Not all of them are meth addicts. Some have mental illness not related to drug use.
    as a physician you must know that;
    A. Many mentally ill people have a dual diagnosis of substance abuse.
    B. Many mentally ill people in our society are under treated or not treated at all for their illness.
    C. Many mentally ill people are homeless.
    Add all the above to the fact that guns are as easy to get as buying a pair of underwear, especially in the south, you can understand why some people (myself included) may be uneasy in the company of erratically behaving unsavory looking individuals.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by stephanD View Post
    as a physician you must know that;
    A. Many mentally ill people have a dual diagnosis of substance abuse.
    B. Many mentally ill people in our society are under treated or not treated at all for their illness.
    C. Many mentally ill people are homeless.
    Add all the above to the fact that guns are as easy to get as buying a pair of underwear, especially in the south, you can understand why some people (myself included) may be uneasy in the company of erratically behaving unsavory looking individuals.
    i have never had to wait an hour for a government approval/permission to buy a pair of underwear. I don’t shop at “underwear shows” nor do I purchase underwear from a family member or friend, so maybe that’s the difference.

  17. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hosh View Post
    i have never had to wait an hour for a government approval/permission to buy a pair of underwear. I don’t shop at “underwear shows” nor do I purchase underwear from a family member or friend, so maybe that’s the difference.
    They have the newest and best underwear at underwear shows, don't rule them out! You're right though buying underwear from someone you know is to be avoided.

    I don't mind waiting an hour for underwear in just the right caliber.
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  18. #58

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    The heck with political correctness. I profile everyone.

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by trailmercury View Post
    Don't Game Wardens now prefer to be called "Conservation Officers"?

    I believe that's what they are called by their own agencies.
    They were "Wildlife Conservation Officers" in PA up until 2018. They are now "Game Wardens". I think they have always been called "Game Wardens" in Maine. In VT they are also "Game Wardens". In NH they are "Conservation Officers". It differs by state. They generally have the same powers as State Police officers in their respective states, but usually also have more extensive search and seizure powers for conservation related crimes - often without needing a warrant.
    Last edited by 4eyedbuzzard; 05-03-2019 at 17:39.

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alligator View Post
    They have the newest and best underwear at underwear shows, don't rule them out! You're right though buying underwear from someone you know is to be avoided.

    I don't mind waiting an hour for underwear in just the right caliber.
    CUSTOMER: I'd like to see a pair of those in my size. I'm a big bore.

    SALESPERSON: Yep, in more ways than one.

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