Self-defense options and pepper spray

[Leo L.]

Here in EU while hiking I got attacked several times by animals: By dogs, cattle, horses.
In either case a cub or stick was the perfect weapon.
The dogs I knew beforehand and was prepared and had a sturdy cub handy when they attacked (and they meant serious business).
The cattle I could fend off with the hiking sticks.
The incident with the horses I could solve with a sturdy stick that luckily was at hand on site.

Honestly I cannot imagine that any weapon more dangerous/deadly than a stick or cub would be feasable while hiking.

[Traveler]

Instead of a gun, I’ve started carrying condoms on the trail. I realized that they’re equally effective since I’ll never have any possible use for either and at least the condoms are lighter.

Ahh, the old "rubber fingers" defense! Excellent.

[John B]

Instead of a gun, I’ve started carrying condoms on the trail. I realized that they’re equally effective since I’ll never have any possible use for either and at least the condoms are lighter.

Ronald Sanchez and his hiking partner -- do you think they would have found a possible use for a pistol?

[Sarcasm the elf]

Ronald Sanchez and his hiking partner -- do you think they would have found a possible use for a pistol?

You might benefit from reviewing this:

http://www.nizkor.org/features/falla...vividness.html

[John B]

You might benefit from reviewing this:

http://www.nizkor.org/features/falla...vividness.html

Thanks for the link. I will read and think about it.

But do you think that Mr. Sanchez and his partner may have found a good use for a pistol? Or is it easier to avoid a direct question?

[Sarcasm the elf]

Thanks for the link. I will read and think about it.

But do you think that Mr. Sanchez and his partner may have found a good use for a pistol? Or is it easier to avoid a direct question?

Given that the question is both rhetorical and statistically irrelevant, I don’t think it warrants a response. They also may have found a good use for an armed security detail and attack dogs, does that make bringing an armed security details and attack dogs a rational option for hikers to consider bringing on the A.T.

[TNhiker]

Given that the question is both rhetorical and statistically irrelevant, I don’t think it warrants a response. They also may have found a good use for an armed security detail and attack dogs, does that make bringing an armed security details and attack dogs a rational option for hikers to consider bringing on the A.T.

i thought John B meant using the pistol to pound tent stakes into the ground......

[rickb]

I find it statistically relevant that 7 AT thru hikers (yes thru hikers) have been murdered many miles into their quests to reach Katahdin or Springer.

Many people do not see this as statistically relevant.

An ATC spokesman put the latest tragedy into perspective by reminding the public that 3,000,000 people hike on the AT each year, in the wake of the most recent murder. They have made similar comment in response to other murders.

Everyone must come come to their own conclusions, of course.

But can you imagine the safety discussions we would all be having if 7 thru hikers had been killed by black bears over the years?

[Tklp]

I always carry pepper spray as well as a pocket knife (although the latter is more for practical purposes). In the Great Smokies I left the pepper spray at home, since I had bear mace. Otherwise the pepper spray is coming along, at least on solo hikes. As a woman it just might give me the jump on a much stronger guy...enough to get away. I know incidents are rare, but I'd hate to get caught in a bad situation with nothing to work with. Pepper sprays can be pretty lightweight, I always keep one on my keychain. That started after somebody tried to follow me into my old apartment after a jog.

[John B]

Given that the question is both rhetorical and statistically irrelevant, I don’t think it warrants a response. They also may have found a good use for an armed security detail and attack dogs, does that make bringing an armed security details and attack dogs a rational option for hikers to consider bringing on the A.T.

I think the question warrants an answer, and I think the answer is that if Mr. Sanchez or his partner were carrying a pistol, then he would not be dead and his partner would not have been knifed.

In my years of hiking, I have never carried a weapon of any type. But recent events are making me rethink my options, and while I have yet to reach a decision, I know that I will not use sarcasm to belittle those who happen to think differently than I do.

[rickb]

Anyone know if the man in handcuffs pictured here is a thru hiker, and whether or not the police ever caught up with the other hiker involved with this incident on the AT?

https://6abc.com/man-arrested-follow...trail/5332052/

One thing is sure, even if you are carrying legally and have done everything any reasonable person would do, things get expensive real quick once the cuffs come out.

[CalebJ]

I don't see anyone belittling you. It's also unreasonable to assume that a weapon would have solved the problem at hand. It's entirely possible that it could have made the problem worse, depending on how the situation played out.

[John B]

I don't see anyone belittling you. It's also unreasonable to assume that a weapon would have solved the problem at hand. It's entirely possible that it could have made the problem worse, depending on how the situation played out.

I didn't say anyone was belittling me, my complaint is with the discussion itself being belittled. Seemingly every time people try to have a serious discussion of weapons and whether to carry or not, it invariably goes to cr** about getting more use from condoms than a gun, rubber fingers, and security dog (har har har).

But in my opinion, Mr Sanchez would be alive and his partner wouldn't be recovering from being knifed if he had a pistol.

If you want an introspective essay about these issues, I would suggest that the Sunday, June 2, NY TIMES feature story in the "Review" is worth reading. Titled "After My Son Was Killed... Then I Became A Gun Owner," by Gregory Gibson. https://nyti.ms/2IaQR3U I would say that it has far greater relevance to this discussion than an earlier suggestion to read a chapter on rhetorical fallacies published on a website used to address holocaust deniers.

Whatever.

[TNhiker]

But in my opinion, Mr Sanchez would be alive and his partner wouldn't be recovering from being knifed if he had a pistol.

unless you were there on scene-----there is no way to predict what could have or couldnt have happened if he had a gun.....

too many variables...

maybe he did have a gun....

since this attack happened in the middle of the night----maybe he didnt have time to reach for his gun....

to many variables to directly say---"if he had a gun, he would be alive"...


we just dont know that....

[Five Tango]

Could a logical thinking person conclude that having a weapon of some kind,regardless of what it actually is,would raise their chances of resistance and defense from "no chance" to at least "some chance"?

[trailmercury]

Could a logical thinking person conclude that having a weapon of some kind,regardless of what it actually is,would raise their chances of resistance and defense from "no chance" to at least "some chance"?

Quite certainly!

[perrymk]

It seems a hammer is the number 3 weapon of choice among killers. It also fits in the ultralight credo of dual use (can also hammer tent stakes) and likely won't be on any restricted carry list. There are lightweight titanium versions but they probably aren't as effective unless one really needs a less-sparking or non-magnetic version.

Hammer Homicides: Weapon More Devastating in a Man’s Hand

[Heliotrope]

unless you were there on scene-----there is no way to predict what could have or couldnt have happened if he had a gun.....

too many variables...

maybe he did have a gun....

since this attack happened in the middle of the night----maybe he didnt have time to reach for his gun....

to many variables to directly say---"if he had a gun, he would be alive"...


we just dont know that....

Couldn’t agree more.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[rickb]

A more difficult question to ask is if he would be alive had every Thruhiker taken the murderer’s continued presence on the Trail as seriously as they would have taken of a mountain lion or grizzly bear (on a Trail where they exist) that had been menacing and following hikers for a long period of time.

It is difficult because the true risk the killer presented could only be determined after the fact. It is difficult, because the options to mitigate that risk (like ending one’s hike or at least removing oneself from the area) would have been hard enough for someone out for a week— and much, much harder for a determined thru hiker.

Its especially difficult because thru hikers tell themselves and the world that the risk of such violence on the Trail is to small to even factor into one’s decision making. After all, 3 million people hike the Trail each year (thanks for the reminder, ATC).

[Five Tango]

Correct me if I'm wrong(and I am sure someone will since this is WB) but I distinctly remember reading on line news reports after the very first incidents that it was a guitar he was carrying and not a machete.As it turns out,some are still referring to his big Crocodile Dundee size knife as a machete,not that it really makes any difference at this point but one would like to expect news reports to be more accurate.