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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by peakbagger View Post
    I hang out with redliners, There are lot of trails on the fringes of the WMNF that a peakbagger would never visit that add up to lot of miles. Seeing the conditions of some of them like Haystack Notch Trail in Maine, I don't think anyone uses it unless they need to check a box. Steve Smith the WMG editor is rapidly adding formerly local trail networks like the Shelburne Trails Association trails to the guide. I think its two headed goal.. make the guide comprehensive and sell more new guides as there is new content

    Note the terrifying 25 list was created by a couple of home schooled elementary children. Great kids with 4Ks under their belts when they were quite young but still their interpretation may be different than an adults (although there was public input on the list). The former Underhill route off of North Percy in Nash Stream has one of the most significant pucker factors I have hiked. Traversing steep open slabs is not my thing.
    I kinda figured that. When I hiked the Cohos. I was like oh... there's thousands more miles left here in NH lol. It was quite the different perspective.

    I had finished the 48 a couple times before doing the AT.

    And the AT kinda closes one mind on how "big" the whites are. Theres way more in NH than the AT thats for sure.

    I feel like one spend could three weeks just walking around the sandwich range.

    The 48 are cool. The AT is cool. But man there are some hidden gems and AMAZING places in NH when you get away from the peaks and the AT.

    My first time to Dixville Notch blew me away. Loved it.



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  2. #42
    Registered User coach lou's Avatar
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    After a few days on the AT, and a night in Carter Notch, HB and I plan to turn east and spend a few more days in the Wild River Wilderness..........because.

  3. #43

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    Since they took the Moriah Brook Suspension bridge across the Wild River down two years ago I expect there are lot less folks in the Wild River area. The Black Angel trail is very well maintained trail. The Moriah Brook trail is definitely less so.

  4. #44
    Registered User coach lou's Avatar
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    should I bring a 3wt........and get a license?

  5. #45
    Registered User egilbe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by coach lou View Post
    should I bring a 3wt........and get a license?
    I would, good fishing there.

  6. #46
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    "If you can hike the Whites, you can hike anything."


    The idea the AT or the White Mountains are somehow the most difficult LD global hiking is ridiculously over rated...often by those with limited backpacking experience. The Whites definitely are NOT the standard by which all hiking difficulty should or could be measured.

    Ice snow, rain, seasonal aspects, high winds, high heat and lack of shade, quicksand, 3 pts of contact advised or required, much higher elevation(2x+), wether on single track or off trail, the risk of being shot or imprisoned on some international hikes as a foreigner, etc makes a significant difference, increasingly so when these aspects are experienced cumulatively. Thru hiking the AZT, Hayduke, Grand Enchantment, Southwest Horseshoe, LTH Route, Big Foot Tr, coastal hikes with potentially fatal tidal and wave aspects/finding ways around sea cliffs and over rugged deeply forested headlands, deep swift cold water fords, through desert routes in 110* heat, lack of shade, deep forested wilderness, true remoteness, lack of trail, hiking through burnt or heavy debris field areas, few to no signs/blazes/real trail/evenly spaced apart mouse trap shelters, with decreased uber over anal-yzed logistical opps for H2O, resupply, assistance, paved road crossings, hostels, trail angels, etc can pose it's own difficulty. The PNWT has its set of difficulties more so when opting for alternative unsigned un-blazed ridge line routes in ice or snow or other options highly overgrown with alder that a backpack must be removed to get through. It's the same with the North Country Tr. Strolling mindlessly along on a backpacking interstate highway like the AT, BMT, JMT, LT, PCT, etc where one can largely turn their mind off during fair weather hiking is akin to being an interstate summer season driver on cruise control in an air conditioned cab. The highly maintained ST and logistical eases of the AT during typical fair weather seasons is not how all hikes are laid out even if it's located in the White Mountains. There's no longer even a deep water ford on the AT. Sharp elevation change/differences and gradient are not the be all end all of backpacking or hiking difficulty. WRR, SHR, and Kings Canyon High Basin Routes have their sets of challenges. Mile after mile of knee deep quagmire over countless blow downs in thick forested swamp on NZ and Tasmania trails/routes or the heat of the remotish Bibbulbum Track is difficult in it's own way. Go off trail in some Redwoods NP areas and it makes route finding harder than what was seen by Rambo escaping to the British Columbia forest in First Blood. Cant climb over or under a 20 ft diameter fallen redwood in a deep forest. The idea the AT or the White Mountains are somehow the most difficult LD global hike is over rated...often by those with limited backpacking experience.

    Doing hikes on a faster pace such as Tapon did on the first ever CDT yo yo taking different routes each direction or Williams on his PCT forced timeframe PCT record setting yo yo or or Skurka's completion of the Great Western Loop or North Country Tr WITHOUT stopping or Lichter' and Forry's PCT winter thru or Lichter's Great Himalayan Tr first ever thru are WAY WAY more difficult than hiking the AT through the White Mountains...and not just because length. What Earl Schaffer or Bill Irwin did was IMHO more difficult than current hiking of the Whites.

    Yeah, the Whites have some of the harshest weather in the U.S. but how many can say that's how they experience the Whites? Hikes where there's a USPO, Smoothie, and paved road with popcorn noshing sightseeing 400lb Tourons at the top may not be that hard after all.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dogwood View Post
    "If you can hike the Whites, you can hike anything."


    The idea the AT or the White Mountains are somehow the most difficult LD global hiking is ridiculously over rated...often by those with limited backpacking experience. The Whites definitely are NOT the standard by which all hiking difficulty should or could be measured.

    Ice snow, rain, seasonal aspects, high winds, high heat and lack of shade, quicksand, 3 pts of contact advised or required, much higher elevation(2x+), wether on single track or off trail, the risk of being shot or imprisoned on some international hikes as a foreigner, etc makes a significant difference, increasingly so when these aspects are experienced cumulatively. Thru hiking the AZT, Hayduke, Grand Enchantment, Southwest Horseshoe, LTH Route, Big Foot Tr, coastal hikes with potentially fatal tidal and wave aspects/finding ways around sea cliffs and over rugged deeply forested headlands, deep swift cold water fords, through desert routes in 110* heat, lack of shade, deep forested wilderness, true remoteness, lack of trail, hiking through burnt or heavy debris field areas, few to no signs/blazes/real trail/evenly spaced apart mouse trap shelters, with decreased uber over anal-yzed logistical opps for H2O, resupply, assistance, paved road crossings, hostels, trail angels, etc can pose it's own difficulty. The PNWT has its set of difficulties more so when opting for alternative unsigned un-blazed ridge line routes in ice or snow or other options highly overgrown with alder that a backpack must be removed to get through. It's the same with the North Country Tr. Strolling mindlessly along on a backpacking interstate highway like the AT, BMT, JMT, LT, PCT, etc where one can largely turn their mind off during fair weather hiking is akin to being an interstate summer season driver on cruise control in an air conditioned cab. The highly maintained ST and logistical eases of the AT during typical fair weather seasons is not how all hikes are laid out even if it's located in the White Mountains. There's no longer even a deep water ford on the AT. Sharp elevation change/differences and gradient are not the be all end all of backpacking or hiking difficulty. WRR, SHR, and Kings Canyon High Basin Routes have their sets of challenges. Mile after mile of knee deep quagmire over countless blow downs in thick forested swamp on NZ and Tasmania trails/routes or the heat of the remotish Bibbulbum Track is difficult in it's own way. Go off trail in some Redwoods NP areas and it makes route finding harder than what was seen by Rambo escaping to the British Columbia forest in First Blood. Cant climb over or under a 20 ft diameter fallen redwood in a deep forest. The idea the AT or the White Mountains are somehow the most difficult LD global hike is over rated...often by those with limited backpacking experience.

    Doing hikes on a faster pace such as Tapon did on the first ever CDT yo yo taking different routes each direction or Williams on his PCT forced timeframe PCT record setting yo yo or or Skurka's completion of the Great Western Loop or North Country Tr WITHOUT stopping or Lichter' and Forry's PCT winter thru or Lichter's Great Himalayan Tr first ever thru are WAY WAY more difficult than hiking the AT through the White Mountains...and not just because length. What Earl Schaffer or Bill Irwin did was IMHO more difficult than current hiking of the Whites.

    Yeah, the Whites have some of the harshest weather in the U.S. but how many can say that's how they experience the Whites? Hikes where there's a USPO, Smoothie, and paved road with popcorn noshing sightseeing 400lb Tourons at the top may not be that hard after all.
    Typically when people say it they mean in terms of the strenous hiking involved. No other aspects. Which all your points are 100% valid.

    I always hear it from triple crowners. And in their context it's more that if you can hike the whites then you should be able to handle the "hiking" aspect on the PCT or CDT.

    The ruggedness and elevation change in the Whites is very real. Especially when you step away from the AT. The AT at least gives you some nice ridge walks thrown in the mix.

    But the AT portion is what? 5% of the White Mountains? Dont quote me on that, but it really is just a small, direct route through the Whites.

    In the end, dont take it literally. Backpacking through the White Mountains is difficult. The terrain isnt exactly forgiving.

    Hanging from a ledge in Peru, isnt exactly what some would consider hiking.

    I mean...lots of southern hikers get to NH and say that exact thing. You call this hiking? You call this trail? I met so many people on the AT who were BLOWN away by the whites. It really was their first time in a "big" mountain range.

    It all depends on your definition of hiking. Because some of what you said would be considered mountaineering. Or is it alpinism?

    But its all kinda the same in the end right?

    What Voyager meant was...if you can hike in the White Mountains, then physically, you should be able to handle hiking on the other national scenic trails in terms of your legs holding up. In terms of physical effort.. does it really ever get much more than that? Idk, you're the triple crowner.

    He didnt mention anything standing in 2 feet of water in a swamp in Florida lol. Or 110* heat in the desert.

    But then we could talk about a hurricane blasting you off the Presedential Ridge without notice.

    PS. I survived surgery. And went for a walk today.



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  8. #48
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    All my best Fox. Sincerely hope you get out the PCT next yr.

    I feel your pain. I had debilitating PF for six months. Had to abandon two FHT and a MST thru. Finally, got back to work without pain too.

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