?? Camping at locations other than shelters/campsites on the AT

[scope]

...I only make fire when car camping and don't like the idea of people chopping either. Hopefully, those that do build fire are using dead/downed wood, or is that against LNT?

...I see hammocking in my near future. Currently, I'm using the MSR thru-hiker mesh 2 under a Warbonnet Cloudburst tarp. I haven't used it in the backcountry yet, but love the idea of the tarp. I can only imagine getting out on the AT and seeing the wealth of opportunities to hang being very alluring.

Yes, acceptable to use the dead/downed wood, but most sites are so well used that there isn't much left of that. And what happens is the noobs come in expecting to use that wood and can't find any, or not enough for their hours long fires, and start cutting what they can.

As a hanger, of course, I'm really disappointed when I see that much chopping has occurred on larger trees that they clearly weren't going to chop down. This eventually makes the trees unhealthy, as does the barren ground created by recurring tent use. This leads to many popular campsites to be more dangerous than they otherwise would've been, and occasionally you hear on the news about a tree falling on someone - and like 99% of the time its in one of these high use areas. The other 1% are noob hammock users that don't notice the health of the tree they're trying to hang on. Forces created by suspending your weight horizontally are substantial. Its why using straps and not rope is so important. I loathe ENO and other retail hammocks for this reason. It was years before they even offered straps as a separate item to buy, which in and of itself, is loathsome.

Sorry, that's my rant of the day.

So, why are you using what is basically a 3-4 person fly with a limiting inner tent? Have you camped in the Ga mountains before? I use a netless hammock year round. My guess is the bugs have too much good environment around the mountains at lower elevation than to try living in the mountains. There are some not so intrusive ones and with insulation around me, the only exposure I might have is my face and I do carry a bug net for that purpose, but rarely use it. Frankly, I use it more in the daytime for gnats. The Cloudburst will, of course, be great for when you're hanging and you'll have all that room underneath to cook, change clothes, lollygag or whatever.

[Dogwood]

Yes, acceptable to use the dead/downed wood, but most sites are so well used that there isn't much left of that. And what happens is the noobs come in expecting to use that wood and can't find any, or not enough for their hours long fires, and start cutting what they can.

As a hanger, of course, I'm really disappointed when I see that much chopping has occurred on larger trees that they clearly weren't going to chop down. This eventually makes the trees unhealthy, as does the barren ground created by recurring tent use. This leads to many popular campsites to be more dangerous than they otherwise would've been, and occasionally you hear on the news about a tree falling on someone - and like 99% of the time its in one of these high use areas. The other 1% are noob hammock users that don't notice the health of the tree they're trying to hang on. Forces created by suspending your weight horizontally are substantial. Its why using straps and not rope is so important....

That is the common nature of well used beaten down camp sites of low knowledge based and 'I'm only responsible to self' trail USERS. Yet, that's supposed to be LNT? I scratch my head in confusion the AT has bear cables to protect food from bears and other critters but have shelters in the same immediate area with food prep tables and allow, even welcome, food to be prepared, eaten and usually stored in AT shelters???

[BAontheTrail]

Forces created by suspending your weight horizontally are substantial. Its why using straps and not rope is so important. I loathe ENO and other retail hammocks for this reason.

So, why are you using what is basically a 3-4 person fly with a limiting inner tent? Have you camped in the Ga mountains before? I use a netless hammock year round. My guess is the bugs have too much good environment around the mountains at lower elevation than to try living in the mountains. There are some not so intrusive ones and with insulation around me, the only exposure I might have is my face and I do carry a bug net for that purpose, but rarely use it. Frankly, I use it more in the daytime for gnats. The Cloudburst will, of course, be great for when you're hanging and you'll have all that room underneath to cook, change clothes, lollygag or whatever.

Hammock straps FOR SURE!!!

As for the tarp/bug net set-up: Most of the places I have previously camped (Alabama, and just into GA at state/natl parks) had bugs. I have yet to camp/hike on any portion of the AT, but I'm interested to see what late June brings in terms of insects at the elevations on the AT in GA. Does anyone else have feedback on the claim of hardly any bugs at AT elevation in GA??

[Randy Watson]

I'm hiking the Georgia portion of the AT in late June and am wondering about alternative (stealth?) sites. I'm thinking it would be nice to have some options other than the campsite/shelters I see in books like AWOL's guide. If using LNT ethics, can I just camp off trail anywhere in the AT corridor?

I've hiked the southern third of the AT twice, what I recall is that you will generally find established campsites shortly after every road crossing, at nearly every single summit or height of land/ridge, and almost always near water of any kind. But to be honest, the best method I recommend is finding a water source, pick a direction, and follow the creek until you find something. Works for me

[Slugg]

You need to know the local camping rules because they vary in certain areas along the AT.

The most well known rule variance is that in the Smokies, you must camp at designated campsites/shelters along the AT. Stealth camping in GSMNP is illegal.

Saw your username and knew that was exactly what you were going to say, lol

[scope]

That is the common nature of well used beaten down camp sites of low knowledge based and 'I'm only responsible to self' trail USERS. Yet, that's supposed to be LNT? I scratch my head in confusion the AT has bear cables to protect food from bears and other critters but have shelters in the same immediate area with food prep tables and allow, even welcome, food to be prepared, eaten and usually stored in AT shelters???

Would that not be common for any trail that has shelters? My guess is that the cables came after the shelters were built and had become a necessity for the very reason you describe... but I fail to see your point. Not like the AT - or any other trail - is going to tear down their shelters to be more LNT. They accommodate the best they can. Lots of compromises and accommodations in life, this is just one of them. I think all we can expect is for ourselves to be aware of LNT practices and respect how those practices will make things better for everyone, even those who don't show that same respect.

[MuddyWaters]

AT shelters were never intended to be LNT or anything else, they were intended to be a convenience for hikers.

GSMNP, specifically intends its campsites and shelters to concentrate impact, to preserve rest of park. They are not LNT either.

AT shelters do serve purpose today of concentrating impact, but that is not why they were built. It is becoming a more important aspect with increasing number of non LNT hikers.

[Dogwood]

Would that not be common for any trail that has shelters? My guess is that the cables came after the shelters were built and had become a necessity for the very reason you describe... but I fail to see your point. Not like the AT - or any other trail - is going to tear down their shelters to be more LNT. They accommodate the best they can. Lots of compromises and accommodations in life, this is just one of them. I think all we can expect is for ourselves to be aware of LNT practices and respect how those practices will make things better for everyone, even those who don't show that same respect.

On trails with shelters like the Pinhoti, Northville Lake Placid, Quachita and a few more I've thrued and plenty of SP's with shelters and a few NP shelters not all are beaten down with substantial disrespect of the environment. Even some Long Tr shelters, particularly north of the AT/LT junction, are not as heavily beaten down. The one Benton McKaye Shelter on private property is not as beaten down as AT shelters tend to be. The BMT GSMNP shelter is even less beaten down although mice run around there too. This is a newer designed and built shelter than some of the AT shelters though. Mice wouldn't be there rampaging if it wasn't for human food behaviors committed out of ignorance for our own species' food preparation, consumption, and storage comfort. Sure, the usage numbers play the primary role. However, the consequences result also from human irresponsibility with a low knowledge base that gravitate to AT over use. In the SP's and NP's education is playing a role in reducing human impact.

I wasn't suggesting AT shelters should be removed.

"I think all we can expect is for ourselves to be aware of LNT practices and respect how those practices will make things better for everyone, even those who don't show that same respect."

Alternatively, we could approach it as we are all stewards of each trail we step on having far reaching impacts beyond simply ourselves leading by example. We need to better police and educate our outdoor communities. In this regard WB posters like HKDK, Tipi Walter, Another Kevin, Muddy, TN Viking, Lori from the ATC, and several others immediately come to mind as good examples of responsible stewardship. Cam "Swami" and Liz "Snorkel" also immediately come to mind as strong educational advocates with far reaching impacts on communities they influence. We may be saying something similar but in our own unique Scope and Dogwood ways.


AT shelters are 1) built for the convenience and comfort of the human species 2) to concentrate impact, again for human convenience, AND for a greater environmental good

[BAontheTrail]

But to be honest, the best method I recommend is finding a water source, pick a direction, and follow the creek until you find something. Works for me

Lovely info, thanks Randy!

[Scrum]

Not like the AT - or any other trail - is going to tear down their shelters to be more LNT.

Actually, in the White Mountain National Forest, lots of shelter have been taken down. Not along AT, mostly in the designated wilderness areas. There are several factor that impact the decisions, part of which relates to LNT.

Interestingly, some shelter in WMNF have been designated for historic preservation.

A Google search produced this report on shelter in WMNF with lots of information about their history and types of shelters. https://www.nh.gov/nhdhr/documents/jordan.pdf

[BAontheTrail]

As others have stated there are a decent amount of established camp spots in GA. One thing that no one mentioned is that camping outside of an established spot might be a little more tricky in GA than elsewhere on the AT as there is a significant amount of posion ivy that grows as ground cover in GA. It's been a while since I've hiked GA, but I remember seeing lots of it along most of the AT through GA. So just be careful and make sure you can identify poison ivy as you don't want to get up in any of that.

I get chills thinking of having poison ivy all over my hands and fingers as a kid. Miserable!! Thanks for the heads up about the ground cover ivy.

Absolutely HYOH BAonthe trail, which also entails being responsible for one's hike and behavior rather than doing yet another cookie cutter hike as someone else hiked.

Best advice yet! Hike on, Dogwood =]

[johnacraft]

Most of the places I have previously camped (Alabama, and just into GA at state/natl parks) had bugs. I have yet to camp/hike on any portion of the AT, but I'm interested to see what late June brings in terms of insects at the elevations on the AT in GA. Does anyone else have feedback on the claim of hardly any bugs at AT elevation in GA??

That fits with my experience. Flying insects generally don't live in windy areas with little stagnant water, and the lower air density at elevation factors in as well.