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  1. #21
    Leonidas
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    Quote Originally Posted by AllDownhillFromHere View Post
    Walk all day with a pack on up and down many hills. Set up camp. Cook dinner. Eat dinner. Lay down.
    Not that simple for some, I can hike 14 hours and still not sleep soundly.
    AT: 471 mi

    Pinhoti Trail '18-19'

    @leonidasonthetrail https://www.youtube.com/user/tehJC13

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by JC13 View Post
    Not that simple for some, I can hike 14 hours and still not sleep soundly.

    Right, so perhaps it prudent to consider and examine why that may be? Perhaps, it could be substances in food or prescription drugs or otherwise related to lifestyle that can all be changed rather than adding yet another substance like synthetic OTC or prescription sleeping pills into the mix? Could there be things in our culture/societal norms/habits that promote an ADHD, insomniac, mind scrambling always on the mental go, and anxiety prone life that keeps us on the mental and drug filled merry go round?

  3. #23

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    Eye mask, ear plugs and Bengal Spice tea 15 minutes before bed have all worked for me.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dogwood View Post
    Right, so perhaps it prudent to consider and examine why that may be? Perhaps, it could be substances in food or prescription drugs or otherwise related to lifestyle that can all be changed rather than adding yet another substance like synthetic OTC or prescription sleeping pills into the mix? Could there be things in our culture/societal norms/habits that promote an ADHD, insomniac, mind scrambling always on the mental go, and anxiety prone life that keeps us on the mental and drug filled merry go round?
    I feel personally attacked...

    In all seriousness some good food for thought though. Personally, I always struggle to get any sleep at all the first night but sleep pretty good the rest of the way. Wake up a lot but usually fall right back asleep. Herb-aided. Unfortunately the lack of sleep on night one makes me more hesitant to pull one or two-nighters.
    traveliní light

  5. #25
    Garlic
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dogwood View Post
    Instead of adding more drug compounds to what U.S. citizens are accustomed to en masse, consider eliminating food drug compounds and behaviors that interfere with sleep: pre hike weening myself off caffeine, MSG(loaded in processed foods), chocolate before bed, sugars(U.S citizen's diets are often high in simple sugars often disguised in foods that interferes with sleep), high fat and protein content foods just before bed as heavily digesting a meal can interfere with sleep, and not eating while watching TV or on the computer or ph or in bed helping my mind to be less stimulated all help me sleep better on trail.
    I first heard this concept a couple of years ago. Rather than adding something to the mix to make us feel better, often removing something is the much better solution, though it's seldom considered. We are bombarded by advertising and professional advice urging us not to.

    As I aged, alcohol started interfering more with sleep and next morning performance. Rather than looking for better additives, I removed the alcohol. Chocolate keeps me awake too, so that's gone. Fatty meat used to bother me at night, so no more of that.

    What's the fun, you ask? Nothing beats a good night's sleep. But as they say, "All things in moderation--including moderation!"

  6. #26

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    Sore legs can keep me awake. Ibuprofen fixes it. I rarely use it though.
    "It's fun to have fun, but you have to know how." ---Dr. Seuss

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by garlic08 View Post
    I first heard this concept a couple of years ago. Rather than adding something to the mix to make us feel better, often removing something is the much better solution, though it's seldom considered. We are bombarded by advertising and professional advice urging us not to.

    As I aged, alcohol started interfering more with sleep and next morning performance. Rather than looking for better additives, I removed the alcohol. Chocolate keeps me awake too, so that's gone. Fatty meat used to bother me at night, so no more of that.

    What's the fun, you ask? Nothing beats a good night's sleep. But as they say, "All things in moderation--including moderation!"
    You get it as an evolved questioning the rote answers Luddite ULer culturally sobered up intentional living minimalist.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slugg View Post
    I feel personally attacked...
    He he. Cornering people into considering being personally accountable often has that effect. At some point I began realizing I was personally accountable for the life I was experiencing and visiting upon others. I've learned to thrive by keeping friends who are not like me, diverse, willing to offend if necessary, to mutually elevate understanding and humility, to bring each other face to face which that which we're ignorant. I'm very fortunate to have close friends so strong that we can be civil yet willing to share this way rather than constantly shallowly agreeing or coddling each other's feelings.

  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dogwood View Post
    He he. Cornering people into considering being personally accountable often has that effect. At some point I began realizing I was personally accountable for the life I was experiencing and visiting upon others. I've learned to thrive by keeping friends who are not like me, diverse, willing to offend if necessary, to mutually elevate understanding and humility, to bring each other face to face which that which we're ignorant. I'm very fortunate to have close friends so strong that we can be civil yet willing to share this way rather than constantly shallowly agreeing or coddling each other's feelings.

    I certainly agree with you in a broad context but you have to take into account biophysical and endocrine-metabolic issues that contribute to sleeplessness. What would you suggest to those people experiencing a condition that is unaffected by lifestyle changes and offensive friends?

    Not challenging...just curious.

  10. #30
    Garlic
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dogwood View Post
    You get it as an evolved questioning the rote answers Luddite ULer culturally sobered up intentional living minimalist.
    What's the worst thing about being a vegan who does Crossfit and has a shelter dog? Deciding what to tell people about first.
    "Throw a loaf of bread and a pound of tea in an old sack and jump over the back fence." John Muir on expedition planning

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by garlic08 View Post
    What's the worst thing about being a vegan who does Crossfit and has a shelter dog? Deciding what to tell people about first.
    I thought it might be how to start the static electricity between fingers discussion.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Traffic Jam View Post
    I certainly agree with you in a broad context but you have to take into account biophysical and endocrine-metabolic issues that contribute to sleeplessness. What would you suggest to those people experiencing a condition that is unaffected by lifestyle changes and offensive friends?

    Not challenging...just curious.
    I agree, based on limited knowledge what I find works for others and myself that has been clinically researched. Indeed, we have to be careful not to jump to hasty judgements ignoring wider sleep disorder research that considers a wider number of factors, perhaps including lifestyle choices that may have yet been unexamined in greater detail. I'm not a M.D. or professional trained sleep disorder researcher. You have greater daily personal educational access through your career.




    In some incidences endocrine metabolic disorders can be affected by hormone therapy. I don't consider endocrine disorders such as Type 2 Diabetes not to be largely lifestyle related. If Addisons or Hyperthyroidism, such as Graves, and depending on their cause(s) prescription drugs can have therapeutic affects.

  13. #33
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    I never have a problem when I'm by myself in a tent, but sleep really bad when in a shelter. I always wake up around midnight having to pee, or with bad gas from dinner, and worry about disturbing everyone by getting up. So I lay there fretting over whether or not to get up. In my tent i just do whatever and don't worry about anyone but me.

  14. #34

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    Each individual's body chemistry is different, so what works for one may not for the next. Even "safe", "natural" supplements can have adverse effects, particularly when combined with other supplements or drugs.[/disclaimer]

    I don't have trouble sleeping on the trail, but used to at home. Have worked night shift for most of the last 2 decades, so sleep during the day.
    I tried 5-HTP for awhile. To say it worked for me is an understatement. I actually DON'T use it, because it makes me sleep too well. Have to have a solid 8hrs set aside, because I'm gonna sleep for at least 8 hours, maybe more. And that's just occasionally taking a minimal dose an hour before bed.
    I don't recall seeing it listed among 5-HTP's side effects, but it made my dreams more vivid and memorable, which is consistent with increased dream activity from the serotonin it encourages production of.
    Sensory deprivation, courtesy of covered eyes and a noise-canceling+"relaxing ocean surf" audio track, is what I do now. If I had problems sleeping in the woods, ear plugs and a Buff over my eyes are what I'd try first.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by spfleisig View Post
    Which is your go-to to get some solid sleep while on trail?

    Thx
    I always use Melatonin. The good thing is that it is not addictive at all. I've been using it everyday for 8 years and having become addicted yet.

  16. #36

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    Have you tried not using it in the last 8 years? That sounds like an addiction! ��

    Quote Originally Posted by FlyPaper View Post
    I always use Melatonin. The good thing is that it is not addictive at all. I've been using it everyday for 8 years and having become addicted yet.

  17. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by chknfngrs View Post
    Have you tried not using it in the last 8 years? That sounds like an addiction! ��
    Gee...I drive a car to work everyday for eight years and I'm addicted to driving folks!

  18. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by trailmercury View Post
    Gee...I drive a car to work everyday for eight years and I'm addicted to driving folks!

    Kidding of course. Melatonin is not addictive. (I'm an MD)

    the best treatment of chronic insomnia is actually Cognitive Behavioral Therapy.
    It's very hard to get the patients to actually go to therapy for sleep issues; most want a quick easy (lazy) fix i.e. a prescription.

  19. #39
    Super Moderator Ender's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spfleisig View Post
    Which is your go-to to get some solid sleep while on trail?

    Thx
    Bourbon. Actually, exhaustion, and then bourbon.
    Don't take anything I say seriously... I certainly don't.

  20. #40

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    Exhaustion. If not then melatonin.
    Never brought the melatonin, exhaustion is pretty much fail safe for me.
    ./~Hi ho, hi ho, it's up the trail I go ./~

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