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  1. #21
    Registered User JPritch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fastfoxengineering View Post
    Sure. All the details aren't there. One observation from my point of view (background in firearms and training). An individual who is obviously sleeping with presumably a handgun (did they state what it was?) at the ready is one of two things. Someone trained with weapons and has training on threats. He sleeps with his weapon every night. Or two... a more common gun totin, prideful individual. Usually number two gets excited because hes going camping! And can now justify bringing the .357 to bed because they're in bear country! Otherwise the wife makes him keep it in the safe. When confronted by a threat. Freaks out. Pulls a gun. And Shoots.

    Lots of details missing.

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    Good summary. I've known too many of the latter. Scary.
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  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by fastfoxengineering View Post
    Sure. All the details aren't there. One observation from my point of view (background in firearms and training). An individual who is obviously sleeping with presumably a handgun (did they state what it was?) at the ready is one of two things. Someone trained with weapons and has training on threats. He sleeps with his weapon every night. Or two... a more common gun totin, prideful individual. Usually number two gets excited because hes going camping! And can now justify bringing the .357 to bed because they're in bear country! Otherwise the wife makes him keep it in the safe. When confronted by a threat. Freaks out. Pulls a gun. And Shoots.

    Lots of details missing.





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    So what would you suggest the victims do in this situation?

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Five Tango View Post
    So what would you suggest the victims do in this situation?
    At this point no one on this forum knows which one was the victim.

  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by grubbster View Post
    At this point no one on this forum knows which one was the victim.
    I think if most of the people in this forum woke up with someone in their bed tonight assaulting their wife then it would not take them too long to figure out who the victim is in that situation.But then again some of you might want to ask him if he understands that he is in the wrong home,wrong bed,with the wrong lady,doing something that she does not approve of?

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Five Tango View Post
    So what would you suggest the victims do in this situation?
    I never said anything should have gone down differently. Therefore im not suggesting anything.

    If the facts are as stated, then yeah, justified. Seems like the police saw it that way.

    Or did some drunk dude stumble into the wrong tent and some trigger happy, inexperienced gun owner blow his head off in an act of panic when the guy fell onto his wife?

    And thats how the "victims" saw it all go down. There I said it. Pretty easy to bend the truth on this one.

    We will never know.

    The scary part is number two scenario seems more likely to happen imo.

    All speculation. Knowing WHY this individual had a piece next to him can give some more insight into the whole situation. What was his background with weapons?

    Did he have a gun because he carries everyday and it's just part of his life? This would make one feel much more confident in his story.

    Or did he have a gun that comes out of the safe twice a year due to an irrational fear of camping and thinks of the gun as some brass balls. Therefore much more likely to send off a round that didn't need to.

    This kinda info actually clarifies much of the shooting.

    All speculation when you weren't in the tent to see it go down.

    The guy crawled into the tent. Crossing a serious personal space zone for sure. No arguing that.

    This is just one of those times when the only evidence is that the guy entered the tent. Anything after that is all what the couple said.

    And im not saying they are liars. But if you messed up and blew some drunkards head off. Wouldn't you use their exact story?


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  6. #26

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    Apparently the police believe the story and may have likely proved it true with a lie detector test which would explain why no charges have been filed.

    Whether or not the shooter is a "trained firearms professional" or just some goober exercising his 2nd amendment rights makes no difference,because if the story is true,he acted appropriately under duress and in the dark the moment his companion's screams awakened him to a fight in progress.

    If he is lying he is rightly headed to jail but since it has been four days since the incident and no charges have been filed then I expect that will not be the case.By the way,do we know if the deceased was drunk,insane,or on drugs or is that simply speculation?Since California has Castle Doctrine and the survivors felt their lives were in danger,why would it make any difference if the perpertrator were under the influence when the assault was committed?

    Anyone who owns and carries a firearm would be well advised to read "In the Gravest Extreme" by Massad Ayoub which gives good information as to when the use of force is called for and when it is not.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Five Tango View Post
    Whether or not the shooter is a "trained firearms professional" or just some goober exercising his 2nd amendment rights makes no difference,because if the story is true,he acted appropriately under duress and in the dark the moment his companion's screams awakened him to a fight in progress.
    Even with an identical set of facts, members of the law enforcement community get treated far differently than commoners in these kinds of situations.

    Seems like the shooter is being presumed innocent so far — almost like he has a badge.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Five Tango View Post
    Apparently the police believe the story and may have likely proved it true with a lie detector test which would explain why no charges have been filed.
    I don't know what the PD relied upon, but for the record, polygraph tests ("lie detectors") prove nothing regarding truth or falsity.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Time Zone View Post
    I don't know what the PD relied upon, but for the record, polygraph tests ("lie detectors") prove nothing regarding truth or falsity.



    and cannot be used as evidence in the court of law.....

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by TNhiker View Post
    and cannot be used as evidence in the court of law.....
    Generally, yep. I was going to include that but decided to be concise.

    There are apparently some jurisdictions where results can be admitted into evidence if both sides agree, but when would both sides in a contested case agree to such a thing?

    Also, while results may correlate with nervousness and anxiety, an innocent person may have those things in spades when accused of a serious crime, facing a trial, massive legal bills, etc etc. [For a similar reason, psychopaths can beat such tests. hakuna matata to them]

  11. #31
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    If he is lying he is rightly headed to jail but since it has been four days since the incident and no charges have been filed then I expect that will not be the case.



    well...

    they could (and probably are) waiting to see what the prosecutor says about all this............or they can even take it before a grand jury and see what the grand jury thinks about it.....

    just because he ain't in jail now doesnt mean that they can come back and charge him later on if warranted......

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by rickb View Post
    Even with an identical set of facts, members of the law enforcement community get treated far differently than commoners in these kinds of situations.

    Seems like the shooter is being presumed innocent so far — almost like he has a badge.
    Really wow, now it's a possible cover up for a fellow police officer!

  13. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by Time Zone View Post
    I don't know what the PD relied upon, but for the record, polygraph tests ("lie detectors") prove nothing regarding truth or falsity.
    True,they are not infallible and generally are not admissable in court but for some reason,law enforcement seems to consider them a valuable tool as they get used all the time.

  14. #34
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    I'm almost sorry I started this thread. But somebody was bound to anyway I have a suspicion. Ya know every scenario discussed above is a possibility . It's the crazy season this year in the woods that I know for sure!

  15. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by orthofingers View Post
    I've heard that many or most times, even when there is a clear cut case of justifiable homicide, the innocent person is still put through hell legally, financially and emotionally in the aftermath of the incident.
    legally and financially depend on the state. MA - you're life is screwed. Tx - not so much.
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  16. #36
    ME => GA 19AT3 rickb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JNI64 View Post
    Really wow, now it's a possible cover up for a fellow police officer!
    Your perspective is flawed.


    Unfortunately, when it come to anything associate with guns, everyone is not treated equally in some jurisdictions.

    Do you seriously think all people are treated similarly in these kinds of situations?

  17. #37
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    Perhaps just the way I perceived it doesn't matter. And no I definitely don't believe people are treated equally there's double standards everywhere including my workplace. My point is this is just another danger we face going out in the woods like we do. There's another thread on it right now. we prepare for ticks, rabid animals, heat stroke, freezing to death,etc... this is just another danger we need to prepare for the crazies.just try to have some kind of plan. Because any of these traumatic events that's happened this year could happen to any of us.Maybe I should have put a question mark after my title? ( not paranoid just prepared).

  18. #38

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    [QUOTE=Five Tango;2251433]Apparently the police believe the story and may have likely proved it true with a lie detector test which would explain why no charges have been filed.

    Whether or not the shooter is a "trained firearms professional" or just some goober exercising his 2nd amendment rights makes no difference,because if the story is true,he acted appropriately under duress and in the dark the moment his companion's screams awakened him to a fight in progress.

    If he is lying he is rightly headed to jail but since it has been four days since the incident and no charges have been filed then I expect that will not be the case.By the way,do we know if the deceased was drunk,insane,or on drugs or is that simply speculation?Since California has Castle Doctrine and the survivors felt their lives were in danger,why would it make any difference if the perpertrator were under the influence when the assault was committed?

    Anyone who owns and carries a firearm would be well advised to read "In the Gravest Extreme" by Massad Ayoub which gives good information as to when the use of force is called for and when it is not.[/QUOTE



    An investigation of this type will take a while to reach a conclusion never mind conduct. A shooting in an uncontrolled rural/wilderness area has a lot of logistical issues that will slow down the investigation, four days most certainly would not be enough regardless of what a polygraph that can be manipulated claims. Some of these logistics include:

    Finding witnesses who have moved up/down trail will be difficult if not impossible after about 24 hours. Even if there is a list with contact information it may take months before contact can be made. This is perhaps the most difficult and potentially important issue as witnesses can help corroborate statements to LE.

    A forensic examination of the scene to look for gunpowder residue, blood spatter and other evidence in the tent (tent walls, sleeping bags, clothing, etc) before the scene is disturbed is needed to determine who was in the tent and where they were. Who's to say the shooting didn't happen outside the tent and the body dragged into it. Just getting that equipment to the scene and completing a thorough examination will take several days.

    Victim and shooter/shooter girlfriend relationships have to be investigated. May have been an on-going feud, busted romance, or business deal that went bad, could be complete strangers. This may take weeks to months to complete.

    Autopsy of the shooting victim to ascertain sobriety, how far away the gun was and angle of the shot to determine body position, determine which hand the shooter used, determine defensive wounds.

    Investigations take a fair amount of time to bring into play and develop results that are compounded by the remote location, difficult access, and crime scene pollution in rural areas of this type. While the initial investigation by LE may have determined it was likely self defense, it's difficult to confirm without forensic evidence. It would not be unusual for many months to go by before any charges are filed or exoneration was finalized.
    Last edited by Traveler; 07-17-2019 at 08:39.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by JNI64 View Post
    I'm almost sorry I started this thread.
    Since it has nothing to do with the AT, I've got to agree with you.
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  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by JNI64 View Post
    Yay finally a good guy wins.
    It's because you said that. Celebrating a homicide.

    I know it's not what you meant. But the way you kicked off the thread kinda set the tone.


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