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  1. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by gpburdelljr View Post
    It took a huge number of assumptions, unsupported by any facts, to reach your conclusion that something is fishy.
    Much as it did to reach the conclusion he should have been shot dead. Go figure.

  2. #62
    ME => GA 19AT3 rickb's Avatar
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    What we do know is that the police were confident enough in what happened that they issued a public statement without reservation or couched in double speak very soon after the incident:

    Reports indicate that a man and his girlfriend were asleep in their tent when an unassociated 36-year-old Watsonville man entered their tent” about 2 a.m., according to the post. “The woman woke up to the Watsonville man on top of her. The woman yelled to wake up her boyfriend ... During the ensuing confrontation, the Watsonville man was shot...

    I think this is great. The shooter no doubt has enough to deal with right now — and even though they said “reports indicate”, that clear statement helps address any concerns of neighbors and coworkers who might think the incident to be fishy. Also great that the Police have not released the shooter’s name or home town, and then followed up with a report on the deadman’s past criminal history
    .

    In short, the police have — as I think they should have — presumed the shooter guiltless and acted as such with their public comment. This has to make things a bit easier for the couple in the tent, as they reintegrate into their home and work lives.

    While Weasel makes some very solid points, I applaud the authorities for this — especially we assume the shooter was a civilian and not member of the law enforcement community or other special class of citizen..

    Remarkable in that case, IMO.

    We may never know.



    Read more here: https://www.sacbee.com/news/state/ca...#storylink=cpy

  3. #63
    Registered User The Old Chief's Avatar
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    This was posted yesterday at around 4:00pm. Stop speculating and read what the Sheriff from that jurisdiction has released.

  4. #64
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    I have a friend that always brings a gun when backpacking, but refuses to use deet or permethrin or stop and do tick checks in high-tick areas.

    People are funny with risk perception.

    Glad this case seems to be cut and dry, sucks for all involved. Not making any excuse, but it's hard not to suspect a real mental health issue at play.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Old Chief View Post
    This was posted yesterday at around 4:00pm. Stop speculating and read what the Sheriff from that jurisdiction has released.
    The victim should get an award!! I will be the first to contribute to his defense fund if needed.
    .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ..........
    Travel not for the destination, but for the joy of the journey.

  6. #66
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    Thanks. There's always more to a story, and glad to see this was it.

    TW
    "Thank God! there is always a Land of Beyond, For us who are true to the trail..." --- Robert Service

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by DownYonder View Post
    The victim should get an award!! I will be the first to contribute to his defense fund if needed.
    I'll be the second!!

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Five Tango View Post
    So what is the proper procedure for reacting to an incident like this?Inquiring minds really want to know.......
    not in your home I do not believe there is as clear of a "path to innocence"

    this is an in your own home scenario, that if you have a clean record should result in not even being brought into custody for questioning

    5 main items

    1 weapon(especially firearm) is legally possessed

    2 structure was secured (break in needs to have occurred) - does not matter how drunk/ confused a person is if they break in

    3 person who broke in is unknown to you by sight or name

    4 authorities were notified previous to deadly force being used

    5 person who broke in was warned to stop/ leave before deadly force was used

    for # 4 and 5 call 911, put the phone upright and yell a warning, leave the phone on until law enforcement arrives (all is recorded) - side note: let the responding law enforcement know where in the structure you are(through the dispatcher) and lay down any weapons - after a shots fired incident the officer will of course have a priority of there own security

    if the person who broke in enters a final barricade (usually bedroom door) after the warning there should be little question of a killing being justifiable - assuming all 5 items check out - that does not mean you will not be sued/ charged with a crime, incur significant expense, mental trauma etc - just that in the end, you are not guilty of a crime

    if 1-5 are not all certain it does not necessarily mean you are guilty, just that more red flags will be raised/ investigated

    of course in this tent/ campground situation everything is more murky, but IMO protection of family would come far above legalities

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Five Tango View Post
    Anyone who owns and carries a firearm would be well advised to read "In the Gravest Extreme" by Massad Ayoub which gives good information as to when the use of force is called for and when it is not.

    2nd this but do not stop there - critical threat training simulates these scenarios as close as you can get - my choice after extensive training and certifications - I have never carried, IMO the threats do not equal the rest of it - the best protection has worked so far, it sits on your shoulders

  10. #70
    Registered User The Old Chief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by George View Post
    not in your home I do not believe there is as clear of a "path to innocence"

    this is an in your own home scenario, that if you have a clean record should result in not even being brought into custody for questioning

    5 main items

    1 weapon(especially firearm) is legally possessed

    2 structure was secured (break in needs to have occurred) - does not matter how drunk/ confused a person is if they break in

    3 person who broke in is unknown to you by sight or name

    4 authorities were notified previous to deadly force being used

    5 person who broke in was warned to stop/ leave before deadly force was used

    for # 4 and 5 call 911, put the phone upright and yell a warning, leave the phone on until law enforcement arrives (all is recorded) - side note: let the responding law enforcement know where in the structure you are(through the dispatcher) and lay down any weapons - after a shots fired incident the officer will of course have a priority of there own security

    if the person who broke in enters a final barricade (usually bedroom door) after the warning there should be little question of a killing being justifiable - assuming all 5 items check out - that does not mean you will not be sued/ charged with a crime, incur significant expense, mental trauma etc - just that in the end, you are not guilty of a crime

    if 1-5 are not all certain it does not necessarily mean you are guilty, just that more red flags will be raised/ investigated

    of course in this tent/ campground situation everything is more murky, but IMO protection of family would come far above legalities
    I can't say you're wrong for giving this information as it relates to your State, but in North Carolina you will see it's very much different. I don't know of any jurisdiction in the United States where you need the permission of law enforcement prior to the use of deadly force. If you have the time to do all the things you say to do you probably have time to pack a suitcase, get in your car, and drive to the nearest police station for help.
    https://www.ncleg.net/EnactedLegisla...S_14-51.2.html
    https://www.ncleg.net/EnactedLegisla...S_14-51.3.html

  11. #71
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    God forbid you ever have to shoot anyone in self-defense, shut-up and DEMAND to have a lawyer before answering any questions. Note that when police officers are involved in a shooting, they don't make statements without legal representation. You would be wise to follow their example.

  12. #72
    Registered User The Old Chief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4eyedbuzzard View Post
    God forbid you ever have to shoot anyone in self-defense, shut-up and DEMAND to have a lawyer before answering any questions. Note that when police officers are involved in a shooting, they don't make statements without legal representation. You would be wise to follow their example.
    You can be rest assured that if I do shoot someone in self defense I will use a criminal defense attorney of my choosing and won't rely on the sage advise of commenters on Whiteblaze.

  13. #73

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    Quote Originally Posted by George View Post
    not in your home I do not believe there is as clear of a "path to innocence"

    this is an in your own home scenario, that if you have a clean record should result in not even being brought into custody for questioning

    5 main items

    1 weapon(especially firearm) is legally possessed

    2 structure was secured (break in needs to have occurred) - does not matter how drunk/ confused a person is if they break in

    3 person who broke in is unknown to you by sight or name

    4 authorities were notified previous to deadly force being used

    5 person who broke in was warned to stop/ leave before deadly force was used

    for # 4 and 5 call 911, put the phone upright and yell a warning, leave the phone on until law enforcement arrives (all is recorded) - side note: let the responding law enforcement know where in the structure you are(through the dispatcher) and lay down any weapons - after a shots fired incident the officer will of course have a priority of there own security

    if the person who broke in enters a final barricade (usually bedroom door) after the warning there should be little question of a killing being justifiable - assuming all 5 items check out - that does not mean you will not be sued/ charged with a crime, incur significant expense, mental trauma etc - just that in the end, you are not guilty of a crime

    if 1-5 are not all certain it does not necessarily mean you are guilty, just that more red flags will be raised/ investigated

    of course in this tent/ campground situation everything is more murky, but IMO protection of family would come far above legalities
    If I wake up in the middle of the night to a screaming wife with a stranger on top of her you can be assured I will NOT call law enforcement or play with a telephone before dealing with the threat because it could be reasonably expected that the intruder would be inclined to murder the husband before he proceeds to rape and murder the wife.
    Last edited by Five Tango; 07-24-2019 at 13:54. Reason: grammar

  14. #74

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    post deleted

  15. #75

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Old Chief View Post
    This was posted yesterday at around 4:00pm. Stop speculating and read what the Sheriff from that jurisdiction has released.
    Reminds me of the great closing argument for capital punishment... there are no repeat offenders!
    The road to glory cannot be followed with much baggage.
    Richard Ewell, CSA General


  16. #76
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    Yeah, and if we later find out they were innocent, they can't complain, either!

    TW
    "Thank God! there is always a Land of Beyond, For us who are true to the trail..." --- Robert Service

  17. #77

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Weasel View Post
    Yeah, and if we later find out they were innocent, they can't complain, either!

    TW
    Please explain to me how a man in that situation could be considered innocent under the law or any stretch of the imagination.Inquiring minds want to know how he would not be guilty of breaking and entering plus assault.

  18. #78
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    Easily done in many ways. Here is one (lawyers call this "mooting", using hypotheticals to test application of law):

    The man was temporarily insane, under any of several texts. As a result, unable to form intent to commit a crime. Not guilty. Pres Reagan's near assassin was this way. Many other ways can be shown.

    TW
    "Thank God! there is always a Land of Beyond, For us who are true to the trail..." --- Robert Service

  19. #79
    Registered User JNI64's Avatar
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    Let's move on folks . Just a freaked up situation. I opened this thread I'm moderating and closing it. HIKE ON!!

  20. #80

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Weasel View Post
    Easily done in many ways. Here is one (lawyers call this "mooting", using hypotheticals to test application of law):

    The man was temporarily insane, under any of several texts. As a result, unable to form intent to commit a crime. Not guilty. Pres Reagan's near assassin was this way. Many other ways can be shown.

    TW
    post deleted
    Last edited by Five Tango; 07-24-2019 at 20:00. Reason: thread closed

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