Justifiable homicide

[JNI64]

Yay finally a good guy wins . Apparently over the weekend at deadman campground in tusilumne Colorado a couple sleeping in their tent a stranger enters their tent in the middle of the night the husband wakes up to him on top of his wife screaming a struggle ensues and good guy shoots bad guy. Entering a mans tent is like entering their home.

[Rain Man]

Nothing to celebrate.

[4eyedbuzzard]

Incident occurred at Deadman's Campground near Kennedy Meadows in Stanislaus National Forest in Tuolumne County, California, not Colorado. Police are still investigating. No, it doesn't sound like anyone will be charged at this point. But as Rain Man notes, killing someone, even if you have to in self-defense, is nothing to celebrate. https://www.sacbee.com/news/state/ca...232607617.html

[JNI64]

Sorry for the bad info on location. And I concur nothing to celebrate. I apologize for coming off so cailluss. But this seems to be happening a lot lately and if it had to happen I'm just glad the good guys won. Being prepared has its benefits, just saying.

[mateozzz]

Assuming the story is correct, it sounds justifiable. However, there's always a chance the story is slanted a little. Like if it was a guy who was just trying to get into the wrong tent (stoned, drunk, etc...) and had no ill intentions but didn't get a chance to recognize his mistake. I know there are lots of strong opinions on both sides, but it pays to keep an open mind.

[rickb]

Assuming the story is correct, it sounds justifiable. However, there's always a chance the story is slanted a little. Like if it was a guy who was just trying to get into the wrong tent (stoned, drunk, etc...) and had no ill intentions but didn't get a chance to recognize his mistake. I know there are lots of strong opinions on both sides, but it pays to keep an open mind.

Good post.

[orthofingers]

I've heard that many or most times, even when there is a clear cut case of justifiable homicide, the innocent person is still put through hell legally, financially and emotionally in the aftermath of the incident.

[One Half]

I've heard that many or most times, even when there is a clear cut case of justifiable homicide, the innocent person is still put through hell legally, financially and emotionally in the aftermath of the incident.

legally and financially depend on the state. MA - you're life is screwed. Tx - not so much.

[MichaelK7]

I've heard that many or most times, even when there is a clear cut case of justifiable homicide, the innocent person is still put through hell legally, financially and emotionally in the aftermath of the incident.

I'd rather still be alive and dealing with the consequences instead of the alternative.
I hope the shooter and the woman aren't plagued by this incident for too long.

[Traveler]

I'd rather still be alive and dealing with the consequences instead of the alternative.
I hope the shooter and the woman aren't plagued by this incident for too long.

I hope they aren't found to be complicit in a murder.

[Trailweaver]

in response to "Orthofingers" - that depends in large part on what the laws are in the state where the incident happened. Not every state has a "stand your ground" law, and yes, if authorities find your story (or the evidence) doesn't quite match up with what happened, you could be charged, if not with a homicide, then something less, like involuntary manslaughter.

Just an opinion, but if you are going to carry a weapon, and you are going to decide to use it, you often have only seconds in which to use your judgement on a situation, and you better hope your judgement is a good call. Homicide is permanent.

[perrymk]

Not every state has a "stand your ground" law,

Most states with "stand your ground" laws distinguish between "stand your ground" and self defense. I believe all state have some version of a self defense law. On the surface this appears to be a self defense case. I'm sure more details will come out in time.

[Five Tango]

This is several years old but it describes the code in California at that time.I am hopeful no charges will be filed based on the limited information we have. https://www.wklaw.com/california-self-defense-laws/

[JNI64]

Active self protection. It's a huge responsibility knowing you possess the power to take a life, like stated before you really have to be sure. If we're getting the correct story this poor guy wakes up at 2am to his girlfriend screaming and some stranger on top of her .he probably screams get out the guy starts fighting and he reaches for equalizer. And if he was drunk or on drugs or both they can be extremely difficult to deal with.

[gpburdelljr]

Why speculate? Eventually more info will come out.

[Pinnah]

Gun owner. Have my LTC. Regular backpacker.

I see no good guy or bad guy here yet. Could just be a case if mistaken tent that escalated to deadly levels due to the presence of a handgun. Fortunate the woman or other campers weren't struck.

I'd recommend waiting for a full report to draw any conclusions one way or the other.

[Five Tango]

So what is the proper procedure for reacting to an incident like this?Inquiring minds really want to know.......

[George]

So what is the proper procedure for reacting to an incident like this?Inquiring minds really want to know.......

not in your home I do not believe there is as clear of a "path to innocence"

this is an in your own home scenario, that if you have a clean record should result in not even being brought into custody for questioning

5 main items

1 weapon(especially firearm) is legally possessed

2 structure was secured (break in needs to have occurred) - does not matter how drunk/ confused a person is if they break in

3 person who broke in is unknown to you by sight or name

4 authorities were notified previous to deadly force being used

5 person who broke in was warned to stop/ leave before deadly force was used

for # 4 and 5 call 911, put the phone upright and yell a warning, leave the phone on until law enforcement arrives (all is recorded) - side note: let the responding law enforcement know where in the structure you are(through the dispatcher) and lay down any weapons - after a shots fired incident the officer will of course have a priority of there own security

if the person who broke in enters a final barricade (usually bedroom door) after the warning there should be little question of a killing being justifiable - assuming all 5 items check out - that does not mean you will not be sued/ charged with a crime, incur significant expense, mental trauma etc - just that in the end, you are not guilty of a crime

if 1-5 are not all certain it does not necessarily mean you are guilty, just that more red flags will be raised/ investigated

of course in this tent/ campground situation everything is more murky, but IMO protection of family would come far above legalities

[The Old Chief]

not in your home I do not believe there is as clear of a "path to innocence"

this is an in your own home scenario, that if you have a clean record should result in not even being brought into custody for questioning

5 main items

1 weapon(especially firearm) is legally possessed

2 structure was secured (break in needs to have occurred) - does not matter how drunk/ confused a person is if they break in

3 person who broke in is unknown to you by sight or name

4 authorities were notified previous to deadly force being used

5 person who broke in was warned to stop/ leave before deadly force was used

for # 4 and 5 call 911, put the phone upright and yell a warning, leave the phone on until law enforcement arrives (all is recorded) - side note: let the responding law enforcement know where in the structure you are(through the dispatcher) and lay down any weapons - after a shots fired incident the officer will of course have a priority of there own security

if the person who broke in enters a final barricade (usually bedroom door) after the warning there should be little question of a killing being justifiable - assuming all 5 items check out - that does not mean you will not be sued/ charged with a crime, incur significant expense, mental trauma etc - just that in the end, you are not guilty of a crime

if 1-5 are not all certain it does not necessarily mean you are guilty, just that more red flags will be raised/ investigated

of course in this tent/ campground situation everything is more murky, but IMO protection of family would come far above legalities

I can't say you're wrong for giving this information as it relates to your State, but in North Carolina you will see it's very much different. I don't know of any jurisdiction in the United States where you need the permission of law enforcement prior to the use of deadly force. If you have the time to do all the things you say to do you probably have time to pack a suitcase, get in your car, and drive to the nearest police station for help.
https://www.ncleg.net/EnactedLegisla...S_14-51.2.html
https://www.ncleg.net/EnactedLegisla...S_14-51.3.html

[George]

I can't say you're wrong for giving this information as it relates to your State, but in North Carolina you will see it's very much different. I don't know of any jurisdiction in the United States where you need the permission of law enforcement prior to the use of deadly force. If you have the time to do all the things you say to do you probably have time to pack a suitcase, get in your car, and drive to the nearest police station for help.
https://www.ncleg.net/EnactedLegisla...S_14-51.2.html
https://www.ncleg.net/EnactedLegisla...S_14-51.3.html

never said you need permission before the use of deadly force - just that the calling(and other steps) help avoid complications - read the post carefully, locked doors etc is a daily routine, the call takes little time, with some training/ practice the steps can be quick, there is no great expenditure of time as outlined - personally I do not have a problem doing a little more before potentially taking a life