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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by TNhiker View Post
    actually this stretch is one that does lend to dropping down to another campsite that is not located on the AT...

    its the easiest one---just drop down to CS 29....

    its not that steep and not that far....

    still going to be adding miles on but this is the shortest way to get from the AT to a non AT campsite...
    However note that if hiking on aThru Hiker permit, you are limited to shelters and campsite on the AT

  2. #22
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    However note that if hiking on aThru Hiker permit, you are limited to shelters and campsite on the AT



    that is true----i was going with the assumption that OP was doing it as a section hike as he didnt mention hiking before and after...

    but, yes, for others as well, that would apply.....

  3. #23

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    Taking a different approach... could you talk to your doctor about a better pain killer for two or three nights, so you could legally stay in the shelters, and not have the horrible pain? I’m not trying to get you addicted to something... but if you can’t legally solve the problem one way, maybe you can manage it another way.

  4. #24
    Registered User Wise Old Owl's Avatar
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    I am with Pringles - but I would recommend an Orthopedic Sergeon, I had a knee cleaned out and I am doing much better. That being said the hammock community has had lots of discussions with the parks and the recommendation is a two inch wide strap to avoid hurting the tree bark. Do your best, I can't tell your age or weight from your bio or the lack of pictures. I wish you the best!
    Dogs are excellent judges of character, this fact goes a long way toward explaining why some people don't like being around them.

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  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rain Man View Post
    From the WhiteBlaze User Agreement: "4. Discussions involving how to commit illegal acts ... are forbidden."
    The OP has said he doesn't even intend to skirt the rules. Good for him.
    He said nothing about how to skirt the rules. He simply stated there may be a fine if you get caught. You are being hyper sensitive. I don’t know why this always has to come up when someone wants to legally avoid shelters in the smokies.

  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wise Old Owl View Post
    I am with Pringles - but I would recommend an Orthopedic Sergeon, I had a knee cleaned out and I am doing much better. That being said the hammock community has had lots of discussions with the parks and the recommendation is a two inch wide strap to avoid hurting the tree bark. Do your best, I can't tell your age or weight from your bio or the lack of pictures. I wish you the best!
    Don’t be logical. Environmental impacts are not the issue here. A hammocker in the overflow area isn’t creating an impact. This is about enforcement of rules and our requirement to follow them.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by FreeGoldRush View Post
    He said nothing about how to skirt the rules. He simply stated there may be a fine if you get caught. You are being hyper sensitive. I don’t know why this always has to come up when someone wants to legally avoid shelters in the smokies.




    by saying " you take your chances on getting caught and potentially pay whatever fine there is."
    it's implying that one breaks the rules/laws...
    after all, nobody is getting caught and paying a fine for something that is done legally......


    and there's a reason to be "hyper sensitive"-----the more people that break the law or go against the rules in the Park only lead to one thing-----more rules and regulations in the Park...

    perfect example was the change in the backcountry reservation system....

    people were bending the backcountry rules and what happened-----more rules came down as a result...........

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by TNhiker View Post
    by saying " you take your chances on getting caught and potentially pay whatever fine there is."
    it's implying that one breaks the rules/laws...
    after all, nobody is getting caught and paying a fine for something that is done legally......


    and there's a reason to be "hyper sensitive"-----the more people that break the law or go against the rules in the Park only lead to one thing-----more rules and regulations in the Park...

    perfect example was the change in the backcountry reservation system....

    people were bending the backcountry rules and what happened-----more rules came down as a result...........
    The whiteblaze policy references discussion on HOW to break the rules. The poster did not discuss anything about HOW to skirt rules. I honestly can’t comprehend why this is hard to understand.

    If someone wants to enjoy the trail but has a legitimate medical issue that prevents them from sleeping on a wooden platform, you guys lack empathy in a way that boggles the mind. We are not hoodlums looking for ways to rebel and break rules.

    When I hang my hammock nothing touches the ground except my shoes. My implementation of LNT surpasses many shelter dwellers I have seen out here. The camping rules in the smokies could be far more efficient. But they are like taking a sledge hammer to the problem. They lack detailed thought and common sense. That’s fine. I’ll work within the rules. But please stop acting like we are criminals for making this effort.

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    All of what TW says is a possible outcome most would seek to avoid. Should a person blow off a citation from NPS Rangers, anywhere, as not being a serious matter and choosing to ignore the consequences for not responding is in for a rude awakening. Likely a warrant for failure to appear will be issued. Federal Marshalls might not come to your door, but, someday when you're driving through a remote small town you might roll a stop sign or be caught doing over the posted limit. When you get stopped and the LEO runs your info and finds an outstanding warrant on you, you are probably going to jail.
    Let no one be deluded that a knowledge of the path can substitute for putting one foot in front of the other.
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  10. #30
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    For reference: https://www.nps.gov/grsm/planyourvis...omplete4-2.pdf

    Here is an option for doing the GSMNP northbound and staying at backcountry campsites where you can legally use your hammock. It adds a bunch of extra miles and all campsites are downhill from the AT so lots of extra ups and downs.

    Day 1 - Fontana to 113 - 4.4mi +3100ft -1300ft
    Day 2 - 113 to 9 - 13.1mi +4300ft -4800ft
    Day 3 - 9 to 26 - 13.4mi +6100ft -4900ft
    Day 4 - 26 to 46 - 13.5mi +4600ft -5300ft
    Day 5 - 46 to Newfound Gap - 10.2mi +3800ft -2600ft

    Spend night in Gatlinburg and resupply... or come back another time

    Day 6 - Newfound Gap to 49 - 9.0mi +2600ft - 4500ft
    Day 7 - 49 to 29 - 21.5mi +9000ft -7500ft
    Day 8 - 29 to 37 - 9.2mi +2700ft -4300ft
    Day 9 - 37 to Davenport Gap - 9.2mi +3200ft -4200ft

    Totals for this nontraditional hike: 103.5mi +39,400ft -39,400ft

    Total for traditional hike staying at shelters: 72mi +26,600ft -26500ft

    Data taken from National Geographic Topo! (defunct software)

  11. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by chiefiepoo View Post
    All of what TW says is a possible outcome most would seek to avoid. Should a person blow off a citation from NPS Rangers, anywhere, as not being a serious matter and choosing to ignore the consequences for not responding is in for a rude awakening. Likely a warrant for failure to appear will be issued. Federal Marshalls might not come to your door, but, someday when you're driving through a remote small town you might roll a stop sign or be caught doing over the posted limit. When you get stopped and the LEO runs your info and finds an outstanding warrant on you, you are probably going to jail.
    No one said anything about ignoring consequences or blowing off a citation. Relax.

  12. #32
    GSMNP 900 Miler
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    Quote Originally Posted by FreeGoldRush View Post
    No one said anything about ignoring consequences or blowing off a citation. Relax.
    No... but people are effectively saying "ignore the rules and risk the punishment"... and that sort of attitude annoys the heck out of those of us here that love the Smokies because we already see too many people breaking the rules and know that the park service doesn't have enough resources to properly enforce the existing rules... and the rules were put in place for a purpose. When they continue to get violated, the rules will change (in a way that will add more restrictions, not relax them) because it's cheaper to change the rules than it is to hire more resources to enforce the existing rules.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by madgoat View Post
    For reference: https://www.nps.gov/grsm/planyourvis...omplete4-2.pdf

    Here is an option for doing the GSMNP northbound and staying at backcountry campsites where you can legally use your hammock. It adds a bunch of extra miles and all campsites are downhill from the AT so lots of extra ups and downs.

    Day 1 - Fontana to 113 - 4.4mi +3100ft -1300ft
    Day 2 - 113 to 9 - 13.1mi +4300ft -4800ft
    Day 3 - 9 to 26 - 13.4mi +6100ft -4900ft
    Day 4 - 26 to 46 - 13.5mi +4600ft -5300ft
    Day 5 - 46 to Newfound Gap - 10.2mi +3800ft -2600ft

    Spend night in Gatlinburg and resupply... or come back another time

    Day 6 - Newfound Gap to 49 - 9.0mi +2600ft - 4500ft
    Day 7 - 49 to 29 - 21.5mi +9000ft -7500ft
    Day 8 - 29 to 37 - 9.2mi +2700ft -4300ft
    Day 9 - 37 to Davenport Gap - 9.2mi +3200ft -4200ft

    Totals for this nontraditional hike: 103.5mi +39,400ft -39,400ft

    Total for traditional hike staying at shelters: 72mi +26,600ft -26500ft

    Data taken from National Geographic Topo! (defunct software)
    @madgoat....THANK YOU!! That is exactly what I needed. I now see that I asked my initial questions completely wrong. I never intended/suggested that I am willing to violate the rules. Only looking for a way to hike it again and use a hammock rather than the shelters.

    Each of those segments are doable with the possible exception of day 7. Thanks again!!
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  14. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by HooKooDooKu View Post
    No... but people are effectively saying "ignore the rules and risk the punishment"... and that sort of attitude annoys the heck out of those of us here that love the Smokies because we already see too many people breaking the rules and know that the park service doesn't have enough resources to properly enforce the existing rules... and the rules were put in place for a purpose. When they continue to get violated, the rules will change (in a way that will add more restrictions, not relax them) because it's cheaper to change the rules than it is to hire more resources to enforce the existing rules.
    No, they are not “effectively saying” that either. No need to backtrack on your prior comment. You can just stop the false accusations entirely.

    To be clear: Some people would like to discuss legal ways to avoid shelters in the smokies. Not doing so comes with consequences that no one should attempt to avoid.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by DownYonder View Post
    @madgoat....THANK YOU!! That is exactly what I needed. I now see that I asked my initial questions completely wrong. I never intended/suggested that I am willing to violate the rules. Only looking for a way to hike it again and use a hammock rather than the shelters.

    Each of those segments are doable with the possible exception of day 7. Thanks again!!
    Yeah, that 21.5 mile day would be a bear. If you could figure out a way to carry enough padding, perhaps you could stay in a shelter that night instead of at 49.

    Good luck. I hope you are able to work the logistics and get it done.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by FreeGoldRush View Post
    No, they are not “effectively saying” that either. No need to backtrack on your prior comment. You can just stop the false accusations entirely.

    To be clear: Some people would like to discuss legal ways to avoid shelters in the smokies. Not doing so comes with consequences that no one should attempt to avoid.
    My post was from actual observation, as well as notation of posts here, that a lot of backpackers/hikers think that a Ranger citation for camping violations is on the same order as a traffic ticket. It's not. Because of the way the federal court system is, it is both a big deal and a major problem for those who get tickets. Can I get you off? Yes, at least the first time. Are you at risk of having your persona life disproportionately screwed up for decades if you don't get off? You better believe it. And, by the way, to get you off, it's gonna cost you something north of $1,000 and probably a personal appearance. Don't tell me that you can't come to Court in Charlotte, NC because you live in Walla Walla, Wash and that's too expensive for a 15 minute hearing in travel expense. You want to know the difference between God and a federal judge? Well, God doesnt think he's a judge. So hanging a hammock other than when there is NPS policy stated saying OK isn't even a discussion topic. Aint. Gonna. Happen.

    TW
    "Thank God! there is always a Land of Beyond, For us who are true to the trail..." --- Robert Service

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by FreeGoldRush View Post
    No, they are not “effectively saying” that either.
    Quote Originally Posted by scope View Post
    ...My guess is that if there are one or two nights where it doesn't work, you take your chances on getting caught and potentially pay whatever fine there is...
    The bold part of that quote sure sounds like "ignore the rules and risk the punishment"...

    Not sure what you mean by "No need to backtrack on your prior comment" (didn't think I was backtracking on anything).

    I happily discuss legal ways for people to avoid things they don't like about GSMNP.
    Off topic case in point... when people talk about wanting to hike with their dogs in GSMNP, I readily point out that Parson's Branch road (a dirt road that is like a really wide trail in the woods) is currently closed to vehicle traffic, but park rules allow dogs (on a leash) along park roads.

  18. #38
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    Madgoat, is there possibly a typo for day 4 & 5.

    Day 4 - 26 to 46 - 13.5mi +4600ft -5300ft
    Day 5 - 46 to Newfound Gap - 10.2mi +3800ft -2600ft

    Do you intend to say campsite 68?

    Campsite 46 is way down Indian Creek toward Deep Creek.

  19. #39
    Registered User scope's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HooKooDooKu View Post
    The bold part of that quote sure sounds like "ignore the rules and risk the punishment"...
    I appreciate FGR taking my side. I also appreciate what you and others do to provide good info on GSMNP. And I take in everything you say.

    What I was trying to say with regard to "take your chances" was to point out the obvious, not suggest a best practice of flaunting rules, but I could've said that better. Aside from that, the method of hiking the AT during peak thru hiker season to avoid staying in shelters is legit, though it does come with that obvious risk. Perhaps one the OP shouldn't take.

    I do sense there's a bit much of this immediate going to site guidelines on perceived suggestion of illegal activity when something is said like this. Best way to approach it is probably how The Weasel responded. What I thought was reasonable might very well not be nearly as benign as I thought. One can argue if something illegal or not, but my take is that on par that is not what people do here. Might back off a bit on some direct language to that effect and ask more questions.

    p.s. thru hiker permit not needed, just have to reserve space in shelters and then give it up to thru hikers all too happy to take it from you. Of course, many more thrus are using hammocks, so that may be the real risk - thru hikers forcing you to comply with your permit.
    "I wonder if anyone else has an ear so tuned and sharpened as I have, to detect the music, not of the spheres, but of earth, subtleties of major and minor chord that the wind strikes upon the tree branches. Have you ever heard the earth breathe... ?"
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  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by scope View Post
    I appreciate FGR taking my side. I also appreciate what you and others do to provide good info on GSMNP. And I take in everything you say.

    What I was trying to say with regard to "take your chances" was to point out the obvious, not suggest a best practice of flaunting rules, but I could've said that better. Aside from that, the method of hiking the AT during peak thru hiker season to avoid staying in shelters is legit, though it does come with that obvious risk. Perhaps one the OP shouldn't take.

    I do sense there's a bit much of this immediate going to site guidelines on perceived suggestion of illegal activity when something is said like this. Best way to approach it is probably how The Weasel responded. What I thought was reasonable might very well not be nearly as benign as I thought. One can argue if something illegal or not, but my take is that on par that is not what people do here. Might back off a bit on some direct language to that effect and ask more questions.

    p.s. thru hiker permit not needed, just have to reserve space in shelters and then give it up to thru hikers all too happy to take it from you. Of course, many more thrus are using hammocks, so that may be the real risk - thru hikers forcing you to comply with your permit.
    Your permit is not transferable. You use it or lose it. If lost or not used in the shelter you . must leave.
    "Thank God! there is always a Land of Beyond, For us who are true to the trail..." --- Robert Service

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