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  1. #21
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    As a company, they should be happy that people share a lot of the info. It's great free advertising.


    which leads me to wonder-----is Guthook doing this to make a profit or just doing it to pass information on to hikers?

    and has anyone asked Guthook what his/her thoughts are on this?

  2. #22
    GSMNP 900 Miler
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    When it comes to hard facts, such as the fixed locations of water sources, Guthook is like a map.
    If you owned a map and another hiker asked you where the local water sources were, would you consider it unethical to share that information just because they didn't buy the map?
    {Fair Use likely comes into play here as there is a difference between sharing data on local resources verse downloading a full list of resources from the Guthook app, printing them out and handing them out.}

    Quote Originally Posted by 4eyedbuzzard View Post
    Here's the terms of use: https://atlasguides.com/terms-of-use/
    When it comes to the trail reports, Guthook's TOU makes no claim of owner ship on the data uploaded by others to the point they disavowal ANY responsibility for the content of these reports.
    Since Guthook doesn't claim ownership, I can't see how anyone would consider it wrong to share this data.

  3. #23

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    My opinion: For me, if I had it - I'd share the info. No question. Yes of course it is ethical to share up-to-date info on water sources, among other things. I'm shocked that's even a question...

    When I've very recently hiked through an area and seen people asking questions about it (either on-line, or in-person), I was happy and quick to share with them the up-to-date info I had as a result of having just hiked through the area in question...

    One of the things that I really appreciate about the LD hiking / thru hiking community, is hikers being kind, helpful, and respectful to one another and, among other things, sharing on-trail info: like water sources... I

    obviously, ymmv...

    Be careful with Lady Carma Gambit, she has her ways of coming back around...


    u.w.

  4. #24
    4eyedbuzzard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TNhiker View Post
    which leads me to wonder-----is Guthook doing this to make a profit or just doing it to pass information on to hikers?

    and has anyone asked Guthook what his/her thoughts are on this?
    Atlas Guides https://atlasguides.com/about-us/ is a for-profit company. Outsideonline says 337,000 app downloads over the last 3 years. https://www.outsideonline.com/239630...ng-thru-hiking The app itself is free - but the trail guides are $9 per section or $60 for the entire AT I believe, with PCT a bit cheaper. If only 50% of those downloading the app purchased just one guide section, that's about $1.5 million gross or so. And it seems like a growing business model. I have congratulate the founders for doing something they are interested in and enjoy and making a good living doing it.

    There is criticism from some that it isn't in the spirit of traditional hiking and that it diminishes self-reliance. But looking back, I remember carrying section guides from the various trail clubs, then the original AT Data book made thru-hiking easier, which was followed with even more info in the The Thru-Hiker's Handbook, then the Companion, AWOL, etc. And just as tech has transformed gear, electronics and radio waves has now transformed hiking info. Pretty much inevitable - if you choose to participate. I'm an old die-hard. I still like paper and maps and shelter registers - but I understand...
    Last edited by 4eyedbuzzard; 10-04-2019 at 18:31.

  5. #25

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    I have photo copied pages from the AT Guide book to carry (Weight ya know) after I finish the section what if I give them to another hiker who could use them? Is this ethical? I see little difference in punching up info on Guthook for a random person.
    ./~Hi ho, hi ho, it's up the trail I go ./~

  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by GaryM View Post
    I have photo copied pages from the AT Guide book to carry (Weight ya know) after I finish the section what if I give them to another hiker who could use them? Is this ethical? I see little difference in punching up info on Guthook for a random person.
    Punching up info on Guthook would be similar to allowing a hiker to look at your printouts for a couple minutes to get information, and then you keep them.

    Sharing some info and distributing I think are very different.

    I wouldn't find it unethical to give hikers a few printouts either though. The guidebook is very long, and handing off a few pages is more of a sample and advertising. If they're already at the trail, they weren't going to buy a paper copy of the full guide anyway.

  7. #27

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    I don't see the problem. People are posting online looking for info on current water conditions. Just because YOU have access to a paid app to get that info and provide it to them isn't a problem.

    If they get online and say, "hey, anyone with the app (which I am too cheap to pay for) want to give me some info..." I would have a problem with that.

    I have another hobby which often causes me to pay for subscription services. When people get on groups and say, "I don't have a subscription, can someone get me this info?" They know EXACTLY what they are doing and it's wrong. Also, the terms of service of those subscription sites prohibits this usage. I don't believe GutHooks has the same prohibitions in it's ToS.
    https://tinyurl.com/MyFDresults

    A vigorous five-mile walk will do more good for an unhappy but otherwise healthy adult than all the medicine and psychology in the world. ~Paul Dudley White

  8. #28
    Registered User soilman's Avatar
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    Believe it or not, some people do not have a smart phone.
    More walking, less talking.

  9. #29

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    Providing Information from WHITEBLAZE to those Who Havent CONTRIBUTED?

  10. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hikingjim View Post
    As a company, they should be happy that people share a lot of the info. It's great free advertising.
    I think that's why I bought the app in the first place. I was on a section hike and someone had it and gave me some info I didn't have and showed me a couple features!
    Witnessed this exact scenario last Friday evening after completing a section. Convo at hostel was centered on water supply, good info and Guthook’s app. Someone about to start their section hike the next day purchased the app on the spot.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by soilman View Post
    Believe it or not, some people do not have a smart phone.
    Like whom? This guy?

    I'm not lost. I'm exploring.

  12. #32
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    Holy crap that's to funny, thanks I needed a good laugh.

  13. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by soilman View Post
    Believe it or not, some people do not have a smart phone.
    Amen to this!! (But we've already had a discussion about smartphones on another WB thread).

    In the old days we used to backpack the Appalachian Trail using either these set of books with maps---

    index.jpg

    Or like me who could follow a trail and blazes without such books---a mere Road Map!!
    $_61.JPG

    The beauty of carrying a road map is enabling us to hitchhike to Oklahoma in the middle of our AT trip---and then returning thru Kentucky etc. Negotiating the actual AT never gave us a second thought as the trail itself and its hatch marks were enough for us "old timers".

    Nowadays it seems everything has to be terminally parsed and planned and studied and confabulated with no deviations and no surprises. In the old days we would start backpacking up the AT in Georgia and midway thru North Carolina we'd hitch to a regional rainbow gathering and camp for a week. Where's the guidebook for this???

    And don't get me going on a long rant about Smartphones and Why I Hate Them.

  14. #34
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    Hey tipi, you and nsherry61 know each others how did he get your picture?

  15. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by JNI64 View Post
    Hey tipi, you and nsherry61 know each others how did he get your picture?
    We were raised by foxes as children.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by soilman View Post
    Believe it or not, some people do not have a smart phone.
    i'm one of them

  17. #37

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    Plus one for no smart phone. I have a thro and go pre paid for emergencies on the road and a pay phone that takes dimes hooked to a land line in my kitchen. The pay phone was a flee market find and it was traded for a 1930s Case knife I purchased for five bucks at a garage sale I do have a "smart" television, but that wasn't so much a choice as a lack of options, and I do like streaming Net Flix.
    "I love the unimproved works of God" Horace Kephart 1862-1931

  18. #38
    Registered User Hoofit's Avatar
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    Lots of 'righteous' folk out there, using 'Whiteblaze' for free! 😆😊🤣....and yes, that includes 'not so righteous' me...though I do intend to contribute to this wonderful website in the New Year. Kind of a Christmas present to myself.
    Last edited by Hoofit; 10-07-2019 at 08:43.

  19. #39
    Registered User colorado_rob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoofit View Post
    Lots of 'righteous' folk out there, using 'Whiteblaze' for free! 😆😊🤣....and yes, that includes 'not so righteous' me...though I do intend to contribute to this wonderful website in the New Year. Kind of a Christmas present to myself.
    I personally don't see any significant self-righteousness in this thread... sure WB is "free", as it is offered for "free", but don't forget, we do look at advertisements, like with most "free" websites, making it technically NOT free.

    And some of us respect copyright laws at various levels, others totally ignore them. Finally, some of us that DO respect copyright laws still do not judge those that don't, in my case because it is so common, plus as I said, I don't particularly care when someone copies pages from my book.

    As far as posting Guthook info on social media, especially in limited amounts, that's OK, probably even with strict laws.

  20. #40
    Registered User lonehiker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by colorado_rob View Post
    I personally don't see any significant self-righteousness in this thread... sure WB is "free", as it is offered for "free", but don't forget, we do look at advertisements, like with most "free" websites, making it technically NOT free.

    And some of us respect copyright laws at various levels, others totally ignore them. Finally, some of us that DO respect copyright laws still do not judge those that don't, in my case because it is so common, plus as I said, I don't particularly care when someone copies pages from my book.

    As far as posting Guthook info on social media, especially in limited amounts, that's OK, probably even with strict laws.
    I've shared pages from a couple of guidebooks, with a handful of people, over the years. Both books are out-of-print and even if those I've shared with had purchased the books at a used book store the author would not have received any royalties... This is at least how I rationalize my actions.
    Lonehiker

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