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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by HooKooDooKu View Post
    Hiked the Lake Shore, Eagle Creek, AT loop this weekend.
    Some of the Eagle Creek crossings were a rock hop... depending upon your skill level. But me and my son just forded them all. The crossings were all about mid-shin deep. Water was plentiful up until about 0.5 miles before Spence (the spring was dry... but when you get to the creek another 0.3 miles below, there was water, but it was all spread out... hike down hill another 0.1 mile and there was a great spot with a flowing fall and large pool... so you could catch or scoop).
    Yesterday from Shuckstack Fire tower, the woods were all green, no noticeable color change could be seen... but there were lots of dead leaves on the ground already (at all elevations).
    It's been quite dry in GA in the Atlanta area so expect with a quick temp decrease from hot and humid to true fall conditions and increasing windy conditions some amt of leaves will drop without fully coloring

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by TNhiker View Post
    yeah........that was a reroute that was done maybe 20 ish years ago....

    and it was really a series of reroutes----

    coming down jenkins-----it joined what was known as pinnacle creek...

    pinnacle creek trail went from hazel creek over to eagle creek......

    so they ended up closing down the side of pinnacle creek from jenkins ridge to eagle creek.....

    reason being was that pinnacle creek has some unbridged creek crossings with the eagle creek one being the worse....one time when i forded it-=---it was chest high...

    they kept the part from jenkins to hazel open and renamed that part lakeshore-----even though it really wasnt in the area of the other parts of lakeshore...

    then the park service decided that they would connect the other parts of lakeshore together to make one long trail from the dam over to the tunnel...

    so they renamed the pinnacle creek>lakeshore trail (from jenkins to hazel) to just jenkins....

    basically making it an extension of jenkins....

    which is what it is now called....

    and in order to connect the parts of lakeshore---the park utilized an old road bed that went from eagle creek to hazel creek..........

    and put a new campsite using the same number (88) along that stretch...

    thats "new" part of lakeshore was just north of the iron bridge on eagle creek going across to hazel creek just west of the callahan (i think thats how its spelled) house...

    theres also a couple of cemeteries along that section of lake shore...

    and yeah, that's where having a most up to date edition of the brown book along with the dollar map........


    hope all this makes sense as im typing it after getting very little sleep the last week and im in my dads room at the hospice place with nurses coming and going...
    History like this priceless. As usual HKDK and you are an inspirational GSMNP insider resource.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by HooKooDooKu View Post
    I thought that trail was "closed" such that it was illegal to hike (like Scott Mtn trail between Rich Mtn and Schoolhouse gap). But then again, I didn't see a closed sign last weekend when I passed the trail (I've never hiked it, but I've noticed it before... easy to find when you know where to look as old log bridge support columns are still in place).


    the only trails that i know that are illegal to hike in the Park are the top of chimney tops, the bottom part of chimney after the bridge that used to come around the north side, and the ridge line out to duckhawk ridge (which really isnt a trail per se)...


    i have never heard of pinnacle to be illegal to hike.....

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    and add into that scott mountain trail, which you have mentioned...

  5. #25
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    If a trailhead is marked with a "Closed" sign, I would think it illegal to hike. As another example, last time I was at the trailhead for Polls Gap trail at Polls Gap, it was marked with a Closed sign.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by HooKooDooKu View Post
    If a trailhead is marked with a "Closed" sign, I would think it illegal to hike. As another example, last time I was at the trailhead for Polls Gap trail at Polls Gap, it was marked with a Closed sign.


    does pinnacle creek have a sign?

    if it does----it wasnt there the 3 times i have done it since it was "closed"


    Polls gap trail is closed to try to allow it to recover with the erosion that is on it.....

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by TNhiker View Post
    does pinnacle creek have a sign?

    if it does----it wasnt there the 3 times i have done it since it was "closed"
    I thought the first time I hiked Eagle Creek that there was a closed sign for Pinnacle creek. But I did not see a sign last weekend (at least nothing I could see from across the creek).

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by HooKooDooKu View Post
    I thought the first time I hiked Eagle Creek that there was a closed sign for Pinnacle creek. But I did not see a sign last weekend (at least nothing I could see from across the creek).


    if they ever did put one there----it would be on the eagle creek trail side....

    the Park made this an unofficial trail to avoid water crossings------that one in particular.....

    and i dont recall ever seeing one up on the jenkins ridge side......

    the way i see it, it's now considered a manway.......

    and one is allowed to hike the manway unless noted on the website or the compedium....

  9. #29

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    hmm, well, hiking off-tail isn't illegal so I'm not sure how that applies to old trails. Pinnacle creek has no closed signs but both ends used to have a wooden sign reading"un-maintained trail"; as of last fall only the Pickens Gap side still has it.

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    hmm, well, hiking off-tail isn't illegal so I'm not sure how that applies to old trails


    yeah....

    the only ones that are illegal are the ones i mentioned earlier on----mainly the upper part of chimney tops, the lower part of chimney that wraps around to the north, and duckhawk ridge...

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by PatmanTN View Post
    hmm, well, hiking off-tail isn't illegal so I'm not sure how that applies to old trails. Pinnacle creek has no
    closed signs but both ends used to have a wooden sign reading"un-maintained trail"; as of last fall only the Pickens Gap side still has it.
    I think there was a sign on the Eagle Creek side but don't remember exactly what it said. Wish I had taken a picture.

    On the Jenkins Ridge side I'm pretty sure it said "un maintained trail".

    My old Trails Illustrated topo map shows the trail, but the new National Geographic map that I bought this weekend doesn't show anything there.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by TNhiker View Post
    yeah....the only ones that are illegal are the ones i mentioned earlier on----mainly the upper part of chimney tops, the lower part of chimney that wraps around to the north, and duckhawk ridge...
    Add parts of Cliff Tops to that list: From the compendium
    The summit of Mt. Le Conte at Cliff Top—approximately a two-acre area west of Sunset Rock, including the ledges—is closed to public use
    I recall there used to be a sign at Cliff Top effectively telling people to stay on the trail and not wander into the adjoining vegetation.

  13. #33
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    If Pinnacle Creek was simply labeled "maintained", what's the sign at Polls Gap?
    I though the sign I saw there was "Temporarily Closed"
    (and if so, that Temporary is now more than a decade).

    Otherwise, I don't recall seeing anything on the closures web page or the Compendium listing Polls Gap as closed (in contrast to the listed closure of Scott Mtn trail).


    Speaking of Scott Mtn trail, any rumors on what's going to happen with that? It's not going to be long before it's been 10 years since that trail was closed. Several years ago, I heard rumors that it was going to be permanently closed. I had expected the next iteration of the back country map to remove the trail... but they've published a new trail map since the time I first heard those rumors.

  14. #34

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    HooKoo,

    I've learned that Scott Mountain trail has some big blow-downs and all appear to have been cleared with small blades and are completely passable. There are parts that have closed in with brush as you might expect from no maintenance and there is one section (no more than 20 feet long) where the steep side-hill has eroded. That's it. I really can't figure out why they don't do a little maintenance and repair and reopen it (budget?). It's in no worse overall shape than many "official" trails in Citico and Slick Rock. In terms of passibility/current state, it's on par with Gunter Fork. (in similar need of brushing and erosion repair)

  15. #35
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    Speaking of Scott Mtn trail, any rumors on what's going to happen with that



    it will never reopen....

  16. #36
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    Add parts of Cliff Tops to that list: From the compendium


    yeah...

    forgot about that one...

    i tried looking for the Compendium last night but all the website led me to was an amendment...

    so i emailed the PIO about it and she sent me the pdf on it..

    i havent had a chance to look at it yet...

  17. #37
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    If Pinnacle Creek was simply labeled "maintained", what's the sign at Polls Gap?
    I though the sign I saw there was "Temporarily Closed"
    (and if so, that Temporary is now more than a decade).



    i havent been up to polls gap in about 8 years so i cant recall what the sign says....

    but, since they closed that trail down for erosion problems----my guess is that they will let it be closed for a couple of more decades before opening it...

    erosion problems dont go away in a year or ten....

    and to be honest----since it was a lightly used trail anyways before the closure----i doubt it will ever get reopened....

  18. #38
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    and add into that list----white oak sinks seasonal closures....

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by PatmanTN View Post
    HooKoo,

    I've learned that Scott Mountain trail has some big blow-downs and all appear to have been cleared with small blades and are completely passable. There are parts that have closed in with brush as you might expect from no maintenance and there is one section (no more than 20 feet long) where the steep side-hill has eroded. That's it. I really can't figure out why they don't do a little maintenance and repair and reopen it (budget?). It's in no worse overall shape than many "official" trails in Citico and Slick Rock. In terms of passibility/current state, it's on par with Gunter Fork. (in similar need of brushing and erosion repair)
    Makes me wonder if it isn't something political... local land owner?

    I heard that the reason CS4 closed was because someone like an ex-mayor of Alcoa that owns a nice house just outside the park near-by complained about campers (perhaps something like campers coming up to the house to fill water bottles from the hose spigot).

    But if that's the case, not sure why CS7 was also closed. It too is near the park boundary, and only a 500' bush-whack to a private cul-de-sac (but as of 2015, the satellite imagery doesn't show any near-by houses).

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by TNhiker View Post
    it will never reopen....
    I can believe that... only because in the 25 years I've been visiting the park, the only trails that have been added to the back country map are Lakeshore (the section that connects Eagle Creek to Hazel Creek and Mingus Creek.

    In the mean time, we've lost Pinnacle Creek, Polls Gap, Hughes Ridge, Scott Mountain?, Blanket Mountain, Spruce Mountain. Add to that the numerous trails that were on the maps prior to 25 years ago (Greenbrier Pinacle, Sugarland/ChimneyTops connector, Breakneck Ridge, and many others).

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