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  1. #1

    Default Tour de Mont Blanc Detailed Packing List | Wilderness Backpack for several months

    Tour de Mont Blanc Detailed Packing List | Wilderness Backpack for maximum self-sufficiency

    In this video we are going to show what's inside our backpacks for Tour de Mont Blanc and Dolomites Hike. As we'll be wild camping most of the time and we'll be out in the wilderness we tried to be as autonomous as possible and as independent as possible. So we brought lots of interesting stuff this time and lots of new one so we are very excited to share this with you.

    Watch the full video here:

    We are interested to know what things do you take with you for any longer hikes that you do and also we'll appreciate any tips that you'll have for us to lighten our backpack.

  2. #2

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    Be careful with wild camping. It is illegal along most parts of the Tour du Mont Blanc and in the Dolomites, and not just the kind of illegal where you can be stealthy and you can get away with it. Fines are hefty too if you get caught.

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by DuneElliot View Post
    Be careful with wild camping. It is illegal along most parts of the Tour du Mont Blanc and in the Dolomites, and not just the kind of illegal where you can be stealthy and you can get away with it. Fines are hefty too if you get caught.
    We know about that and we tried to stay in the campsites when it was possible. But other wise wild camping is not allowed in many areas and that means it would be impossible to do whatsoever. To us it would take all the joy out of our hikes. We like that in France there were quite a lot of area to bivouac when you are allowed to pitch up your tent from 19pm to 7am. And we feel like there should be more of these areas, because there is absolutely no harm in it.

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    Wild camping is illegal throughout EU, except where its definitely allowed in specific places and conditions.
    In heavy travelled areas (which the TDM is) there are very specific rules-of-thumb to follow, by which you can come through with wild camping. If you are really skilled and willing to follow the rules.
    You better be well informed beforehand, as the fines can be hefty.

    There is a difference between hikers and alpinists.
    Bivouac for alpinists is tolerated in most cases.

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Leo L. View Post
    Wild camping is illegal throughout EU, except where its definitely allowed in specific places and conditions.
    In heavy travelled areas (which the TDM is) there are very specific rules-of-thumb to follow, by which you can come through with wild camping. If you are really skilled and willing to follow the rules.
    You better be well informed beforehand, as the fines can be hefty.

    There is a difference between hikers and alpinists.
    Bivouac for alpinists is tolerated in most cases.
    Several countries are fine with wild camping and it is perfectly legal, others are not. This is was a very comprehensive list I found: http://momgoescamping.com/wild-camping-laws-europe/

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    Only in Scandinavia there is an old tradition when it comes to roaming and camping, everything is free unless its definitely forbidden.
    In all other EU countries that I know of, its just the opposite, everything is forbidden unless its definitely allowed.

    There are many lists like the one you've linked, and most look nice and comprehensive, but fail miserabley when it comes to specific details.

    I may give you the example of my state (Austria):
    (wild) camping is forbidden, unless you've got a dedicated "yes" from the landowner. Every slice of land is owned by somebody, so there is zero chance to camp wild legally without permission.
    Then we have a specific set of laws that regulate the touristic usage of forests and mountains, which has one basic rule: Roaming (by foot) is free in all forested and Alpine areas, unless there is some very specific limitation for hunting or regrowth etc.
    This free-to-roam in forests does definitely exclude overnighting. No matter if you just sleep under the open sky or in a tent, overnighting in the forest is off-limits. (you may legally walk circles around a tree the whole night, though).
    And then we have 9 countries here which make the state of Austria, which all have different regulations how camping will be handeled in the Alpine areas above treeline. In my country and the 3 around us, its legal to camp above tree line. In the next 2 towards west, where the really high mountains loom, its forbidden.

    This all said, the practical side is, that hardly anybody goes out for overnighters here, so most likely nobody has a clue what the legal situation is, and nobody would care and harm you anyway.
    Biggest "danger" are the hunters, who typically rent a whole hunting area (like, a whole valley and the mountains around), and most likely will kick you out the hardest way possible.
    And then there are local places here and there, where wild camping is tolerated by the owner and the authorities. Hard to know about these places without the specific knowhow.

    I really don't know about how this is handeled in the SE part of the EU.
    We have wild-camped in all southern EU, mostly at the beach, where its said to be legal (because a wide stripe along the coast is state property and is free to access), but then one day the Police came and kicked out everybody. This hassle was started by the restaurants and rent-room-places in the nearby village, because they wanted to improve the business.

    Just to add:
    In no way I want to fend anyone off from hiking in EU.
    Just in the opposite, I envy Americans for the easy and legal way to roam and camp, and would very much love to have something similar here.
    What I personally do is stealthing so nobody ever knows where I spent my night.
    Last edited by Leo L.; 10-16-2019 at 05:51.

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by DuneElliot View Post
    Several countries are fine with wild camping and it is perfectly legal, others are not. This is was a very comprehensive list I found: http://momgoescamping.com/wild-camping-laws-europe/
    Thanks for the useful source of information, always helpful to study.

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Leo L. View Post
    Only in Scandinavia there is an old tradition when it comes to roaming and camping, everything is free unless its definitely forbidden.
    In all other EU countries that I know of, its just the opposite, everything is forbidden unless its definitely allowed.

    There are many lists like the one you've linked, and most look nice and comprehensive, but fail miserabley when it comes to specific details.

    I may give you the example of my state (Austria):
    (wild) camping is forbidden, unless you've got a dedicated "yes" from the landowner. Every slice of land is owned by somebody, so there is zero chance to camp wild legally without permission.
    Then we have a specific set of laws that regulate the touristic usage of forests and mountains, which has one basic rule: Roaming (by foot) is free in all forested and Alpine areas, unless there is some very specific limitation for hunting or regrowth etc.
    This free-to-roam in forests does definitely exclude overnighting. No matter if you just sleep under the open sky or in a tent, overnighting in the forest is off-limits. (you may legally walk circles around a tree the whole night, though).
    And then we have 9 countries here which make the state of Austria, which all have different regulations how camping will be handeled in the Alpine areas above treeline. In my country and the 3 around us, its legal to camp above tree line. In the next 2 towards west, where the really high mountains loom, its forbidden.

    This all said, the practical side is, that hardly anybody goes out for overnighters here, so most likely nobody has a clue what the legal situation is, and nobody would care and harm you anyway.
    Biggest "danger" are the hunters, who typically rent a whole hunting area (like, a whole valley and the mountains around), and most likely will kick you out the hardest way possible.
    And then there are local places here and there, where wild camping is tolerated by the owner and the authorities. Hard to know about these places without the specific knowhow.

    I really don't know about how this is handeled in the SE part of the EU.
    We have wild-camped in all southern EU, mostly at the beach, where its said to be legal (because a wide stripe along the coast is state property and is free to access), but then one day the Police came and kicked out everybody. This hassle was started by the restaurants and rent-room-places in the nearby village, because they wanted to improve the business.

    Just to add:
    In no way I want to fend anyone off from hiking in EU.
    Just in the opposite, I envy Americans for the easy and legal way to roam and camp, and would very much love to have something similar here.
    What I personally do is stealthing so nobody ever knows where I spent my night.
    Thank you for providing the detailed information. Those rules and laws can be really frustrating and the more you study them the more you get confused sometimes. We are just trying to be as discreet as possible always but of course knowing that you are doing something ilegal doesn't contribute to a good night sleep. Even though in most cases it is simply hard to undestand why it's forbidden in one place and when you cross the border in absolutely the same nature conditions it can be allowed. And we tend to think that it's more related to private property and business issues as you stated than anything else really. Because there is simply no logical explanation to that.

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    Understand you well, basically we're in the same boat.

    There is historical reason why it's this way, and no chance to change that anytime soon.
    When this specific laws were introduced in the 70ties, it was a close call that all forests would get closed to public, so we are kind of happy to have what we have.
    Basically it's all about business, and as soon as you pay, you are free to do whatever you like (within what you've paid for).
    Its definitely not about environment and protection thereof.

  10. #10
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    Curious as to why you picked the most popular and least wild trail in the Alps for wilderness camping. Especially considering the number of people with day packs being shuttled from hotel to hotel along the route.

    Like the AT, I enjoyed both hikes but wouldn’t consider either wilderness camping. I’d go to Norway if I were set on wilderness camping as opposed to skirting/breaking rules. I’d also check the camping rules from an official site. The site listed is a nice starting point but I doubt it gets updated and wouldn’t rely on the I don’t know anyone who got caught. I’ve met people who got caught in PA and Iceland camping where they shouldn’t and ignorance didn’t help their causes.

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