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  1. #121

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    Food can be stored properly out of my sight and away from where I can get at it by absconding with it but food smells at Dominoes or a restaurant or kitchen still make me stop, seek the source, and follow them to the source when I'm desperately hungry. It's not the food stored in freezers or dry stored I'm truly after. It's where the food is cooked and consumed and the food smells left behind on clothing, etc that are the biggest attractant. Now take that in context of being a 200-500 lb bear who has to scavenge as an omnivore with that species sense of smell and strength. What we're doing is going into someone elses's home/house during the Super Bowl with piping hot pepperoni pizza and a 12 pack of beer expecting the owners to not take notice.

    On the other hand, I rather enjoyed watching three black bears open up a sedan like a sardine can with big can opener claws in Yosemite Valley seeking food left opened and out stored overnight inside the car. Yosemite Rangers asked the surprised and obviously irate owners upon arrival if any food and specifically any open food had been left in the car, a blatant violation of well communicated Yosemite NP Rules. The humans said no, no food was left in the car. They lied! The Rangers found two grocery receipts among the food fray paid with credit cards. They asked the Tourons without giving away their investigation direction if they had any credit cards. Sure enough the credit card numbers and food remains on the receipts matched ownership to the humans credit cards that owned the sedan. The Tourons were ridiculously attempting to hold the NPS liable for the damage. The moral of the story is investigate enough and negative bear/human encounters can most often be solely blamed on human behavior including ignoring of rules. Then, in human specie's hubris attempt to deny or lie about the extent of it's specie's involvement. I have a pic somewhere of one bear sitting like a human rear legs spread eating cheese Doodles out of a bag like a human child sitting in front of the TV eating. I couldn't help myself but applaud the Rangers. Sedan had to be flat bedded undrivable.


    Ahh, the mistaken world view humanity is above and separate from Nature/the environment not another predatory animal in Nature. What goes along with this view is mistakenly defining the "take dominion of the Earth and subdue it" command to one in which raping, pillaging, and unwise stewardship becomes the standard human behavior. The connection humanity once had with Nature is replaced with a connection to the economy/money/rampant unbridled consumption/waste/conquest.


    Yeah it's preachy but humanity especially here in the U.S. likes to ignore the consequences of such a world view.

  2. #122
    GSMNP 900 Miler
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Joe View Post
    Let's say everyone starts putting away food properly. Do you think that a bear that has already learned where there is people there is food is going to just stop going where people are? As you said, "Once animals become habituated around people...there is not much that can be done to change learned behavior." If the bear cannot re-learn then it will likely be, eventually, put down. Either because its behavior will escalate or because it will turn to dumpsters and get trapped and put down.

    Don't get me wrong, people need to better store their food but we can't just leave habituated bears out there without attempting some sort of solution to that problem as well. In Alaska, nuisance bears are shot with rubber bullets and it seems to have a decent effect on keeping them away from dumpsters. I don't think I've ever heard of that being used in the East but perhaps it should be.
    The idea behind bear canisters is to retrain the bears people (and their canisters) are not a source of food.

    They are supposed to find the canisters, try getting into it for a while, and eventually five up. Then the next time they find a bear canisters, they've learned not to waste their time.

  3. #123

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    Quote Originally Posted by HooKooDooKu View Post
    The idea behind bear canisters is to retrain the bears people (and their canisters) are not a source of food.
    They are supposed to find the canisters, try getting into it for a while, and eventually five up. Then the next time they find a bear canisters, they've learned not to waste their time.
    If everyone used canisters it would almost certainly solve bear problems. I don’t want to carry a bear canister. So people need to stop being stupid with their food. This isn’t hard to figure out. Either store your food property or (Gasp!) sleep with it.

  4. #124

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    So you're lazy and don't care to make an effort. At least you've shown your true colors. Thanks for that.

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dogwood View Post
    Yeah it's preachy but humanity especially here in the U.S. likes to ignore the consequences of such a world view.
    Keep preaching, brother!

  6. #126
    GSMNP 900 Miler
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    Quote Originally Posted by FreeGoldRush View Post
    If everyone used canisters it would almost certainly solve bear problems. I don’t want to carry a bear canister. So people need to stop being stupid with their food. This isn’t hard to figure out. Either store your food property or (Gasp!) sleep with it.
    While that might work where people are sparsely camping... that is VERY bad advice for areas where people repeatedly camp... specifically GSMNP where everyone is required to camp at limited camping spots where bear cables are provided... you should NOT sleep with your food in GSMNP.

  7. #127

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    Quote Originally Posted by HooKooDooKu View Post
    The idea behind bear canisters is to retrain the bears people (and their canisters) are not a source of food.

    They are supposed to find the canisters, try getting into it for a while, and eventually five up. Then the next time they find a bear canisters, they've learned not to waste their time.

    What about food not stored when being cooked, eaten and food trash discarded in the same place humans sleep? What about when cookware is washed in the same general sleeping location? What about the odors on apparel worn while cooking? Do you truly assume bears will no longer make the connection with food and humans. I've seen both brown and black bears many times much more attracted to where cooking and eating was being conducted compared to where food was being stored literally crashing the feast. They went right by huge stashes of uncooked food and headed directly towards the much stronger cooking odors and food scraps and food trash humans created when presented with the choice. This is made worse when humans in masse are behaving the same way as they do on the AT and NP's.


    Canisters are a step in the right direction but are not the bear/human issue panacea some make it out to be.

    This is how I too avoid bear problems. It's about changing my behavior accordingly not so much the bears.
    Bear Avoidance

    Regardless of whether I have a failsafe way to protect my food, I do not want a bear coming into my campsite, unless a good night of rest is not a priority, which it almost always is. Plus, I don’t want to find out the hard way that my “failsafe” technique was, in fact, not. So whenever I’m in bear country I practice a number of “bear avoidance” techniques. These include:

    • I do NOT camp where I cook. I cook at least a few hundred yards away from my campsite, downwind, preferably in an airy area where there is a gentle breeze to disperse the scents. Wiser still, I sometimes stop around 8pm near a water source, cook dinner, and then hike another hour before setting up camp.
    • I do NOT carry strongly scented food or other items. These would include things like fresh T-bone steaks, slabs of bacon, deodorant, or sweet-smelling toothpaste.
    • ***I do NOT camp in established sites or near popular trails. The bears live in the backcountry (duh!), and they know exactly where their “neighbors” live. And in heavy-use areas, it is more likely that a previous backcountry user has acted improperly and encouraged problem bear behavior (e.g. by leaving trash at their campsite, or leaving food unprotected on a log while they went to get water or watch the sunset). Bears are more likely to visit these areas regularly because they know their odds of obtaining an easy meal are better.
    • I DO camp in undesignated, non-established sites. When the bears make their evening “rounds,” they are less likely to come across me. If I am in an area where camping in designated areas is required (e.g. Glacier and Yellowstone National Parks), this is sometimes not possible, but thankfully there is usually good food-protection infrastructure at these sites.
    • I DO carry my food in odor-proof bags. These bags (such as the OP Sacks from Watchful Eye Designs) will help make me “invisible” to the bears.
    • I DO burn my trash every few days. This helps to reduce my scents, especially if some of my trash is laced with food remnants, like chocolate coatings from energy bars.
    • I DO start hiking early and finish hiking late. The bears are most active in the morning and evening. So if I start hiking when the bears start roaming, and if I settle into camp at around the same time that they are bedding down, then I help to reduce the odds of an in-camp encounter. And, finally,
    • I DO travel and camp where the bears are not, when I can. Bears are most likely to be encountered near their food sources, so if you know what they are eating, you can avoid those areas and elevations. Grizzly bears in Yellowstone, for example, emerge from hibernation in the spring and descend to lower elevations with the hope of catching an elk or bison calf. During the summer they feast on roots, tubers, grasses, rodents, moths, and berries. And, just before hibernation, they head into sub-alpine white bark pine forests in order to eat the pine nuts.
    • https://andrewskurka.com/food-protec...-bear-country/

      If we don't want to experience the common dont act as the common.
    Last edited by Dogwood; 11-05-2019 at 02:19.

  8. #128
    GSMNP 900 Miler
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    True, the use of bear canisters alone isn't going to totally make bear/people encounters go away. As you say, a step in the right direction, but not the universal solution.

  9. #129
    13-45 Section Hiker Trash
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    Yes, I am glad to hear this.

    I have been a proponent of the canister for a while now. I've hung my food and slept with it in my tent in the past, and the canister is just easier to use without the risk of having food in the tent. Once one gets used to the weight it just becomes another part of the gear like the pack, tent and sleeping bag.
    AT: 2007-2019 (45 sections)
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  10. #130

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    Quote Originally Posted by HooKooDooKu View Post
    True, the use of bear canisters alone isn't going to totally make bear/people encounters go away. As you say, a step in the right direction, but not the universal solution.
    Totally agree.I can see it now-someone is going to buy more food than they can put in their canister and leave the excess in the wrong place.You know it's bound to happen.

    I met a guy in the GSMNP that had a bent up pot from a bear in the Shining Rock Wilderness.I wonder how many hang their cook set or will not have a canister that will hold it plus their food.

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