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  1. #81

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    A chain is only as strong as its weakest link. Your safety depends on the next guy doing the right thing as much as you doing the right thing. As long as folks sleep with their food in their tent, hang their food poorly or leave food/snacks/trash unattended then there will be bear problems and bear boxes at shelters might help but won't solve the problem. I was car camping this summer in Canada where every campground had bear proof food boxes and trash cans. I never left food unattended and stored it properly and still had a bear come into my campsite in a crowded and noisy campground in the middle of the day. No doubt others in the past weren't so careful and that bold bear learned an easy meal could be had there.
    If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything.

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheyou View Post
    Which bear container is legal everywhere? How would I know if it is legal ?
    thom
    The rules are different everywhere you go...
    Hopefully, if the AT starts to require a canister, the rules will be the same for the full length of the trail.

    But I've generally seen bear canister requirements fall into three categories:

    1. Areas that allow any commercially made bear canister with hard sides.
    {I believe that one area on the AT in the South East that requires a bear canister for over night stays falls into this category}

    2. Areas that allow any bear canister with IGBC certification.
    {I believe Yellowstone National Park is like this}

    3. Areas that only allow canisters from a pre-approved list.
    {I believe Yosemite National Park is like this}


    Some things will over lap in these categories, some things will not.
    One example: the light-weight Bearikade brand bear canisters. They are on the approved list for Yosemite National Park (and for the full length of JMT thru hikers). But the Bearikade is NOT IGBC certified, so it's not legal in Yellowstone National Park.

    Reasons for the discrepancy include that IGBC tests canisters against grizzly bears (something you will encounter in Yellowstone). But Yosemite doesn't have grizzly bears, so you don't need a canister that has been tested against grizzlies, only black bears.

  3. #83
    Registered User ldsailor's Avatar
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    I think I have read most of the posts, so I'm surprised I haven't seen anyone say they couldn't use a bear box because it was full. I encountered this problem several times in New Hampshire and Maine over the last couple of years.
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  4. #84

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    I received 'Journeys', the ATC magazine fall 2019 issue this weekend. Here's two lines from the article "Harmful Habits" by David McDowell Schafer:
    1. "Land management supervisors in North Carolina are close to ratifying food storage regulations for the AT that will require the use of hard-sided canisters."
    2. "The regulations that may soon pass in the national forests in North Carolina do not include language that allows for an Ursack."
    Now, what am i suppose to do with my new $135.00 AllMitey Ursack? This makes no sense.

  5. #85

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    Quote Originally Posted by ldsailor View Post
    I think I have read most of the posts, so I'm surprised I haven't seen anyone say they couldn't use a bear box because it was full. I encountered this problem several times in New Hampshire and Maine over the last couple of years.
    I can see where full bear boxes might be a problem at the start of hiking season, when so many people are starting out at the same time.

  6. #86
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    "It's all about the money" may be the easy answer, but like most easy answers to complex problems, it is a wrong answer. Bear boxes work well where they exist, but it would be impractical or even impossible to put a bear box at every campsite, which far outnumber the number of shelters. Anyone who has hiked the Georgia AT has seen campsites just about every mile or so. And that's just on the AT. There are dozens of other trails in the forest. Bears don't care if the blaze is white or blue or green. If you think it's a problem for the government to solve, you are part of the problem.
    Last edited by skater; 10-28-2019 at 14:13.

  7. #87

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    Quote Originally Posted by skater View Post
    If you think it's a problem for the government to solve, you are part of the problem.
    So, what’s your solution?

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasBob View Post
    A chain is only as strong as its weakest link. Your safety depends on the next guy doing the right thing as much as you doing the right thing. As long as folks sleep with their food in their tent, hang their food poorly or leave food/snacks/trash unattended then there will be bear problems and bear boxes at shelters might help but won't solve the problem. I was car camping this summer in Canada where every campground had bear proof food boxes and trash cans. I never left food unattended and stored it properly and still had a bear come into my campsite in a crowded and noisy campground in the middle of the day. No doubt others in the past weren't so careful and that bold bear learned an easy meal could be had there.
    Question - you say the bear came into your campsite, but since it wouldn't find anything there (as you say you stored everything correctly), one might suspect it would just leave?

    If that was the case, then did what others did really bother you (having the bear walk through doesn't seem to be a big problem, as one might expect a wild animal to be there no matter what)?

    Seems what others do would only be a problem if the animals started going after those who didn't provide them food (people like you who are following the rules) - if they only bother those who don't (or don't want to) follow the rules of safe storage, then it's only those people who are at fault for whatever happens to them, not anyone else.

  9. #89

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    Quote Originally Posted by gpburdelljr View Post
    So, what’s your solution?
    Requiring canisters seems like an obvious and effective response.

  10. #90
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    2. "The regulations that may soon pass in the national forests in North Carolina do not include language that allows for an Ursack."
    Now, what am i suppose to do with my new $135.00 AllMitey Ursack? This makes no sense.[/QUOTE]

    If a bear gets to an Ursack, the food within is turned to a stew of contents saturated with bear saliva. I met a woman south of Damascus who had a bear rip open her Ursack. They are very effective against mice, raccoons and chipmunks. When you find a good solution for what to do with your Allmitey Ursack let me know.

  11. #91

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slumgum View Post
    If a bear gets to an Ursack, the food within is turned to a stew of contents saturated with bear saliva. I met a woman south of Damascus who had a bear rip open her Ursack. They are very effective against mice, raccoons and chipmunks. When you find a good solution for what to do with your Allmitey Ursack let me know.
    There are three different types of Ursack. To my knowledge the Major and Allmitey haven't been an issue against bears when used with the aluminum liner. The Minor is another story altogether.
    Last edited by CalebJ; 10-28-2019 at 16:19.

  12. #92
    Leonidas
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    Quote Originally Posted by CalebJ View Post
    There are three different types of Ursack. To my knowledge the Major and Allmitey haven't been an issue against bears when used with the aluminum liner. The Minor is another story altogether.
    If a bear gets to an Ursack, the food within is turned to a stew of contents saturated with bear saliva. I met a woman south of Damascus who had a bear rip open her Ursack. They are very effective against mice, raccoons and chipmunks. When you find a good solution for what to do with your Allmitey Ursack let me know.
    I'd be more curious as to how many people actually use the aluminium liner.
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  13. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by CalebJ View Post
    If a bear gets to an Ursack, the food within is turned to a stew of contents saturated with bear saliva.
    That's the issue Ursack has been facing out in Yosemite for years... The company has tried over and over, and has resorted to law suits because Yosemite National Park has refused to include any Ursack in their list of allowed bear canisters.

  14. #94
    Registered User egilbe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JC13 View Post
    I'd be more curious as to how many people actually use the aluminium liner.
    I use my Ursack, never had an issue in Maine or NH. I put my metal pot and fuel canister in the bottom of the bag and tie it to a tree. Guyot campsite has two bear boxes. That campsite has over a hundred people there on a popular holiday weekend. Those boxes aren't enough. Liberty Springs tentsite had a problem bear or two this fall. One was bluff charging hikers to get their packs. Caretakers were running after the bears, banging pots and pans together to scare them off. Reports from Owlshead were that a bear was taking people's packs at the base of the slide. I still didn't have a problem when I spent the night there.

  15. #95

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    My Ursack with liner weighs in at 19 oz or so,makes a fairly good stool,requires no perfect limb,and looks like it would be hard for the bear to get its mouth around enough to do much damage.The S29 All White I have is not rodent proof but since I have always avoided shelters it has yet to be a problem.

    Since it's white I carry it inside the pack;especially during deer season.Too bad they don't make it in orange.

  16. #96
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    As a hammock hanger, I and my hiking buddies often set up pretty far from the shelters, even if we're in "hollerin'" distance. I'm not walking 1/3 to 1/2 mile back to the bear box to get my food. I hate the design and weight of most of the higher end bear canisters, but you know what? Sometimes you just have to suck it up and hike on. Looks like I'll be getting a canister. I like to eat, and I like to sleep at night.
    Hiking is the best teacher, it grades on a curve.
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  17. #97

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    If a bear gets to an Ursack, the food within is turned to a stew of contents saturated with bear saliva. I met a woman south of Damascus who had a bear rip open her Ursack. They are very effective against mice, raccoons and chipmunks. When you find a good solution for what to do with your Allmitey Ursack let me know.
    [/QUOTE]

    But this is exactly why I purchased the Allmitey, which is supposed to take care of those issues. I understand there were problems with the old models. even without the aluminum liner (which I don't have), the Allmitey is quite tough, so i do not worry about the food being mushed. as for saliva, you can just wipe it and wash it.

  18. #98

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    Yet another good reason to day hike the entire AT.
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  19. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by stephanD View Post

    But this is exactly why I purchased the Allmitey, which is supposed to take care of those issues. I understand there were problems with the old models. even without the aluminum liner (which I don't have), the Allmitey is quite tough, so i do not worry about the food being mushed. as for saliva, you can just wipe it and wash it.
    I bought my Allmitey two years ago. If the aluminum liners were available then I was unaware of it. I can see how the liner might protect food within a little better. However, bears are stronger than you can imagine. I saw two Ursacks that bears had "worked on". Neither had the aluminum liner. None of the food within was edible. The bear accessed food in one. The other was successful in keeping the bear from getting a reward. In both cases, complete resupply was necessary. I had an Opsack to line my Allmitey, but the seal failed within a couple of weeks. Too many problems with this system to suit me. I cut my losses and went with a canister and have no regrets.

  20. #100

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    So an Ursack with aluminum liner is a "hard-sided" canister? According to Merriam-Webster dictionary, a canister is described simply as "cylindrical container". Because i rather keep my Allmitey with the liner than carrying a bear canister.

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