Bartram Trail

[Tipi Walter]

There's also a "Western Extension" of the Bartram trail which somehow runs up Snowbird Creek in NC and passes thru Mitchell Lick and climbs to Big Junction and passes over Haw Knob to jct the Benton MacKaye trail near Whiggs Meadow.

[TNhiker]

There's also a "Western Extension" of the Bartram trail which somehow runs up Snowbird Creek in NC and passes thru Mitchell Lick and climbs to Big Junction

oh, my.......

flashbacks of me getting "slightly confused" in that area....

[Dogwood]

There's also a "Western Extension" of the Bartram trail which somehow runs up Snowbird Creek in NC and passes thru Mitchell Lick and climbs to Big Junction and passes over Haw Knob to jct the Benton MacKaye trail near Whiggs Meadow.

Two days ago saw that.

[Mr. Bumpy]

A few years ago I remember someone was promoting the idea of a large Western NC loop that would use the Foothills Trail, Bartram, BMK/AT, Mountains to Sea, and then somehow - mostly road walking - back down to the FT/Jones Gap area. Can't remember what it was called, but is sounded like a worthy endeavor.

[Southeast]

A few years ago I remember someone was promoting the idea of a large Western NC loop that would use the Foothills Trail, Bartram, BMK/AT, Mountains to Sea, and then somehow - mostly road walking - back down to the FT/Jones Gap area. Can't remember what it was called, but is sounded like a worthy endeavor.

Southern Appalachian Loop Trail - SALT - by Matt Kirk


https://www.blueridgeoutdoors.com/hi...t-reality/?amp

[Dogwood]

OKKay Mr Bumpppy. Right back at you. Thx for the post on the South Fork Mills Tr questions.

I dont know what Matt has said or where he got what he did but that's exactly what I shared. It did not originate with me despite some extensive wanderings in the areas loop. The first I heard of it was well more than five yrs ago being called the Nuclear Loop. It was named after four guys, two who were active Navy Nuclear Engineers, one serving on a nuclear powered surface ship and one Navy Nuke Submariner, and one retired nuclear submariner. They were willing to spend some time with me discussing it after I was ending a Foothills Tr thru near Licklog and Pigpen Falls enthusiastically saying how much I enjoyed waterfalls, LD backpacking and had a shortened Navy Nuclear Engineering career interest when in my senior yr of Civil Engineering. They were so gracious. Paying it forward.

There was one part Matt and you're missing - The Missing Link- Mr Bumpy. Getting to Jones Gap SP is not at all hard because the Nuclear Loop included going through Dupont State Forest located on the NC/SC border. It was opined by two of the four this had the best waterfalls in the area. I cant disagree. This was the first I had heard of the place. What makes this less popular with backpackers not desiring only day hikes is they haven't found out ways to creatively legally do multiday hikes through Dupont without camping within it's borders because that's a legal no no.

In short, from the Fawn Lake Access Area head to Reasonover Rd(name?) > Green River Rd > River Ridge Rd > CCC Rd > Shoal Crk Rd and possibly something I'm not recalling (all these are backcountry gravel roads with I think have seasonal motor vehicle access) to the YMCA Camp area down Rainbow Falls(when it was open to the public) OR connecting with the Cleveland Connector spur in Mt Bridge Wilderness/Jones Gap SP via gravel/logging less used roads. I'd have to pull up detailed topos to remember the two different ways I've taken. I was planning a sticky strenuous bushwack route too but never confirmed this 'Missing Link' route. FWIW so many different loop and one way hikes are available in this area utilizing the SP's, WA's Nat Forests, and different named trails. Best of all it's not highly utilized and certainly not for LD hikes of this length. Palmetto Tr also runs through here.

Dont forget the newly established Gorges SP on the NC Border too. Some great waterfalls in there. I wish I had been there for the eclipse. Really some great but risky places to gain some solitude off trail, learn about the local history, and explore. I know of one paw paw grove I visit when the fruit is abundant and ripe. This I believe is one of the globally protected Natural Biosphere Reserves with high diversity. Some steep terrain(gorges) and high avg annual rain fall amts to tough bushwacks but that same aspect makes for waterfalls and so many, as said, attributes. These trails like the Bartram connect to the AT. Remember the Foothills TR goes into NC for some miles around Gorges SP too.

Another untapped starting or ending way is via boat/paddle ride on Jocassasee lake. It can be used to gain access to some really cool Blue Wall places and for FHT segment hikes.

For the umpteeenth time the AT is but one named segment of a much larger interconnected yet un fully realized LD or section hikers or weekenders dream area IF you will step outside of the AT only box. Swami sampled this area in his Southeastern Horseshoe during his series of long hikes one yr. He's not from the U.S. C'mon easterners. Go play. Be creative. This is a GREAT country for hiking!

When is an intrepid hiker going to create a loop out of the Great Eastern and Appalachian Trails?

[Squirrel29]

There's also a "Western Extension" of the Bartram trail which somehow runs up Snowbird Creek in NC and passes thru Mitchell Lick and climbs to Big Junction and passes over Haw Knob to jct the Benton MacKaye trail near Whiggs Meadow.

That sparks my interest Tipi, what map or guide can I look at to see the route.

[Tipi Walter]

That sparks my interest Tipi, what map or guide can I look at to see the route.

That's a darn good question---

https://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php/100230-Western-Extension-Bartram-to-BMT


https://streamsandforests.wordpress....-and-ash-cove/


https://streamsandforests.wordpress....o-cheoah-bald/

[TNhiker]

https://streamsandforests.wordpress....o-cheoah-bald/

while i didnt read her blog on a regular basis-----i miss jenny.......

she was/still is a wealth of information.......

and absolutely one of the strongest hikers i have ever hiked with........

she mainly did day trips but she would fly up mountains........

[Southeast]

Found the link to Swami’s route. Interesting. Thanks for mentioning it Dogwood.


https://www.thehikinglife.com/2016/0...pentine-trail/

[Tipi Walter]

Check out page 6 and page 32 in this link---a cursory mention of Snowbird Creek---

http://npshistory.com/publications/p...artram-nst.pdf

And check out the maps in this link---pages 21, 64, 66---a clear indication of the western extension into western NC and even into TN.

https://www.nps.gov/parkhistory/onli...tram_trail.pdf

[Tipi Walter]

Regarding TNhiker's post---I met Jenny back in 2012 when I was backpacking the Benton MacKaye trail from Sugar Mt on Tellico River south to Big Frog Mt.

We saw each other around Tate Gap/Peels Top Mt and talked for a bit. She mentioned me in a blog post here---

https://streamsandforests.wordpress....brown-highway/

"After stopping for a rest and something to eat, I turned to retrace my steps. Below Cantrell Top I encountered a backpacker who said he was doing a 22-day trip ending at Little Frog Mountain Wilderness (but he was not doing the whole MacKaye Trail). He cheerfully carried a gigantic pack that looked as though it weighed at least 50 pounds. I have the impression that you carry more food with you than on a comparable trip on the AT because of the lack of resupply points."

[Dogwood]

Found the link to Swami’s route. Interesting. Thanks for mentioning it Dogwood.


https://www.thehikinglife.com/2016/0...pentine-trail/

What Swami did was different(an end to ender) than Matt's BRO depicted route(a loop) because I guess he wanted to bag all the BMT. Still a damn fine experience. With Cam's grit, smile and sense of humor he gets away with saying things like "if you choose to follow in my footsteps and hike at the same time of year, I highly recommend bringing an umbrella and an ironic sense of humour."

Note how either Matt's depicted loop or Swami's route can be broken up into segments.

Happens elsewhere too like Brett's NM Skyland's Traverse or Dirtmongers's Vagabond Loop or Andrew's Alaska Traverse or GWL. Serialists(LD addicts) tend to note what each are doing and move it personally forward. This is what I personally do.

LASHing all of Swami's Southeastern Horseshoe(Serpentine) and the Nuclear Loop I prefer the Nuclear Loop. It's longer though. It gets out there at times. When Cam also says he got the solitude he was seeking we should take note considering the extent of his nomadic wanderings. For the Nuclear I pieced together something like seven different larger Nat Geo TI, Nat Forest, Nat Rec Trail, WA, SP, etc maps plus some topos. I had to spread it all out in the basement to fully picture it. Only then did I grasp it.

There are alternates based on those hikes also. Foothills(most of it, Maybe the best parts) or Chattooga River Tr to the Bartram to Cheoha with a romp up the AT is a great hike. Jumping back on the BMT through GSMNP as Cam did(this can also be done with a BMT/AT Figure 8 Thru) or the MST ending at Clingmans or taking it EABO on the MST for an end to ender would be awesome too. Duncan Ridge Tr, Vogel SP(Coosa Backcountry Tr), Brasstown Bald spur, Pinhoti Tr via the BMT, etc are available too. One advantage to some of these hikes is with a decent short term weather window some legs or portions can be hiked yr round basically with NONE of the herd mentality. Heck I've done the Foothills with extensions 3X during winter(Dec, Feb and March). Easterners dont have to go all the way to the far southwest or southeast in Florida to hike all yr. This is an answer to not having to deal with the full negative consequences of the world popular sometimes beaten down AT.

[Astro]

there's a different Bartram trail in AL, near Tuskegee. And one near Augusta, GA, and in FL. They're real short state park trails. Same man they are named after but different trails.

Thanks!
Have to add it to my list.

[Dogwood]

Thanks!
Have to add it to my list.

Like the JMT in Big S. Fork or the BMT that follows a differently name JMT along the Hiawassee River.

[Southeast]

What Swami did was different(an end to ender) than Matt's BRO depicted route(a loop) because I guess he wanted to bag all the BMT. Still a damn fine experience. With Cam's grit, smile and sense of humor he gets away with saying things like "if you choose to follow in my footsteps and hike at the same time of year, I highly recommend bringing an umbrella and an ironic sense of humour."

Note how either Matt's depicted loop or Swami's route can be broken up into segments.

Happens elsewhere too like Brett's NM Skyland's Traverse or Dirtmongers's Vagabond Loop or Andrew's Alaska Traverse or GWL. Serialists(LD addicts) tend to note what each are doing and move it personally forward. This is what I personally do.

LASHing all of Swami's Southeastern Horseshoe(Serpentine) and the Nuclear Loop I prefer the Nuclear Loop. It's longer though. It gets out there at times. When Cam also says he got the solitude he was seeking we should take note considering the extent of his nomadic wanderings. For the Nuclear I pieced together something like seven different larger Nat Geo TI, Nat Forest, Nat Rec Trail, WA, SP, etc maps plus some topos. I had to spread it all out in the basement to fully picture it. Only then did I grasp it.

There are alternates based on those hikes also. Foothills(most of it, Maybe the best parts) or Chattooga River Tr to the Bartram to Cheoha with a romp up the AT is a great hike. Jumping back on the BMT through GSMNP as Cam did(this can also be done with a BMT/AT Figure 8 Thru) or the MST ending at Clingmans or taking it EABO on the MST for an end to ender would be awesome too. Duncan Ridge Tr, Vogel SP(Coosa Backcountry Tr), Brasstown Bald spur, Pinhoti Tr via the BMT, etc are available too. One advantage to some of these hikes is with a decent short term weather window some legs or portions can be hiked yr round basically with NONE of the herd mentality. Heck I've done the Foothills with extensions 3X during winter(Dec, Feb and March). Easterners dont have to go all the way to the far southwest or southeast in Florida to hike all yr. This is an answer to not having to deal with the full negative consequences of the world popular sometimes beaten down AT.

Yea I did Foothills to Oconaluftee Visitor center this spring. Loved it. I plan to continue on next spring hitting the MST, BMCT, Roan, Grandfather and finishing up in the gorge. I’ve done a fair amount of the remaining on weekend trips but never pieces it together. It’s fun laying out the maps and seeing what you can connect together.

[Dogwood]

I really like that hike Southeast. Cool beans. There you go.

I like you veered off the MST at the Mt Mitchell summit(hopefully you'll have good weather for a view) onto the Blk Mt Crest Tr. How are you getting to the AT/Roan Mt from Bowlens Crk Rd(?) at the end of the BMCT? How are you getting to Grandfather Mt from the AT? I like you taking the MST WEBO finishing at a Linville Gorge loop. That route takes in a lot of diversity. Thx for sharing.

[Southeast]

I really like that hike Southeast. Cool beans. There you go.

I like you veered off the MST at the Mt Mitchell summit(hopefully you'll have good weather for a view) onto the Blk Mt Crest Tr. How are you getting to the AT/Roan Mt from Bowlens Crk Rd(?) at the end of the BMCT? How are you getting to Grandfather Mt from the AT? I like you taking the MST WEBO finishing at a Linville Gorge loop. That route takes in a lot of diversity. Thx for sharing.

Here’s the Caltopo map.

https://caltopo.com/m/LFRG#

Road walking or hitching to get to Roan / Grandfather. There’s an old carriage road up to Roan/Cloudland I’ll probably use.

The Mt Mitchell / BMCT / Roan / Grandfather / Linville loop is inspired by Adam at WACPhotography - he called it the High Country Loop. I first heard of it on a video by Neemors World and subsequent video by Douglas Hurdle (well done by the way).

[Furlough]

in 2015----i took 2 backpacking trips---one in february and one in march i believe...
and those have been the last two trips i have been on...
my life took a drastic turn in 2015 when my dad was diagnosis with cancer...
then my mom 2 years later......
and my life took another turn for the worse when she passed away summer of 2018.....
and another bad turn when my dad passed away about 3 weeks ago or so........
both of those events changed my life and not in a good way-------i havent even started to figure out my dad's estate stuff and all that.......
soooooooooooo...........these last few years have not been exactly fun for me........
other than i am still seeing a bunch of music..........and will continue to do so.....
just not sure when i'll get back into backpacking-----heck---i dont even know where my stuff is at anymore.....

Damn, I know how you feel Dad passed with cancer in Oct 2017, and them Mom passed in August 2018. My brother and I are down to one last item to close out the trust/estate actions. Backpacking and my trail maintaining (and a lot of other things ) have taken a backseat.

Furlough

[devoidapop]

I really like that hike Southeast. Cool beans. There you go.

I like you veered off the MST at the Mt Mitchell summit(hopefully you'll have good weather for a view) onto the Blk Mt Crest Tr. How are you getting to the AT/Roan Mt from Bowlens Crk Rd(?) at the end of the BMCT? How are you getting to Grandfather Mt from the AT? I like you taking the MST WEBO finishing at a Linville Gorge loop. That route takes in a lot of diversity. Thx for sharing.

Here’s the Caltopo map.

https://caltopo.com/m/LFRG#

Road walking or hitching to get to Roan / Grandfather. There’s an old carriage road up to Roan/Cloudland I’ll probably use.

The Mt Mitchell / BMCT / Roan / Grandfather / Linville loop is inspired by Adam at WACPhotography - he called it the High Country Loop. I first heard of it on a video by Neemors World and subsequent video by Douglas Hurdle (well done by the way).

That road walk on 19E and 194 into Banner Elk would be a little dangerous, but I'm sure hitching or getting a shuttle would be easy. Great map