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  1. #1
    Registered User Regulus's Avatar
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    Default What is the elevation gain from GE/NC border to Hot Springs?

    see title. thank you. can you provide how you obtained this info?

  2. #2

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    A lot. Personal exeperience.
    The AT - It has it's ups and downs...

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    The elevation at the GA/NC border is 3825 ft ASL. The elevation at the intersection of the AT and US Rt 25 is 1326 ft ASL. A loss of 2499 ft.

    The cumulative ascent (without loss, or how much one hikes uphill) is 53,080 ft. Try using http://www.atdist.com/ Look at the small print between start and stop points and the ascent/decent data is there. There is also info on the site about the methodology used to calculate the values found here http://www.atdist.com/mapelev

    Mapman, IRL Steve Shuman, (same person's elevation data used in above website) also had some data on this which could be used to calculate such stuff, archived here https://whiteblaze.net/forum/content.php/49
    Last edited by 4eyedbuzzard; 03-05-2019 at 20:12.

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by 4eyedbuzzard View Post
    The cumulative ascent (without loss, or how much one hikes uphill) is 53,080 ft.
    Like I said, a lot That's like 10+ miles of uphill!
    The AT - It has it's ups and downs...

  5. #5
    Registered User Regulus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slo-go'en View Post
    A lot. Personal exeperience.
    lol. I know it's a lot. I've done it twice. I'm trying to squeeze in a Long Trail thru-hike with the 10 days of vacation time I have and I'm wondering about that section. The gain between Springer and Georgia/NC border is approx. 19,800'. Since I did Springer to mile ~273 (about the same distance as The Long Trail) I'm trying to determine what it will take miles/day-wise to do the hike.

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    Registered User Regulus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4eyedbuzzard View Post
    The elevation at the GA/NC border is 3825 ft ASL. The elevation at the intersection of the AT and US Rt 25 is 1326 ft ASL. A loss of 2499 ft.

    The cumulative ascent (without loss, or how much one hikes uphill) is 53,080 ft. Try using http://www.atdist.com/ Look at the small print between start and stop points and the ascent/decent data is there. There is also info on the site about the methodology used to calculate the values found here http://www.atdist.com/mapelev

    Mapman, IRL Steve Shuman, (same person's elevation data used in above website) also had some data on this which could be used to calculate such stuff, archived here https://whiteblaze.net/forum/content.php/49
    Thanks, that's a great resource!

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Regulus View Post
    What is the elevation gain from GE/NC border to Hot Springs?
    GE ???? General Electric has a plant on the NC border????

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    Quote Originally Posted by Regulus View Post
    lol. I know it's a lot. I've done it twice. I'm trying to squeeze in a Long Trail thru-hike with the 10 days of vacation time I have and I'm wondering about that section. The gain between Springer and Georgia/NC border is approx. 19,800'. Since I did Springer to mile ~273 (about the same distance as The Long Trail) I'm trying to determine what it will take miles/day-wise to do the hike.
    Figure 60% of your normal mileage on northern half of LT.
    Normal mileage on bottom half. Throw in a couple zeros or half days for resupply as you like

    A consistent 18-20 mpd hiker on southern AT can do LT in 3 weeks.

    10 days vacation, 6 weekend days around that is 16 days w/o travel. Pretty fast. Theres been a few 2 week-ers before here. Cant say id want to do that .
    Last edited by MuddyWaters; 03-05-2019 at 22:17.

  9. #9
    4eyedbuzzard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Regulus View Post
    lol. I know it's a lot. I've done it twice. I'm trying to squeeze in a Long Trail thru-hike with the 10 days of vacation time I have and I'm wondering about that section. The gain between Springer and Georgia/NC border is approx. 19,800'. Since I did Springer to mile ~273 (about the same distance as The Long Trail) I'm trying to determine what it will take miles/day-wise to do the hike.
    Quote Originally Posted by MuddyWaters View Post
    Figure 60% of your normal mileage on northern half of LT.
    Normal mileage on bottom half. Throw in a couple zeros or half days for resupply as you like

    A consistent 18-20 mpd hiker on southern AT can do LT in 3 weeks.

    10 days vacation, 6 weekend days around that is 16 days w/o travel. Pretty fast. Theres been a few 2 week-ers before here. Cant say id want to do that .
    THIS ^^^
    According to "Thru-Hiker's Guide to America" by E. Schlimmer, the LT has approx. 67,500 feet of elevation gain end-to-end. Which really doesn't do it justice as the same mileage (273) and ascent numbers on the southern AT can't compare in difficulty (especially northern half). The footpath up north is a mix of rocks, steep slabs, even rebar ladders and such in places - with some mud thrown in of course because the rocks themselves just aren't slippery enough . It's just not conducive to hiking fast. Falling fast, yes. Hiking fast, no. Unsupported LT FKT is just under 7 days. 10 actual hiking days is exceptionally fast. The northern half is brutal. 3 to 4 weeks is a more normal pace for good hikers.

  10. #10

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    Your trying to compare apples to oranges. There is no comparison. I was doing a LT E2E when a woman from Colorado tried to best the FKT. She came close at something like 5 days, suported. And it beat the hell out of her. I meet her at the Inn at the Long trail, nursing her wounds. She was quite stunned at the level of difficulty the LT presented.

    In 10 days you could do the southern (AT) half. The northern half of the LT is primarily on private land so you are required to only camp at the designated sites, which will impact your pace. It's also insanely difficult. 20-25 days is a more typical pace, 10 days would be exceptional.
    The AT - It has it's ups and downs...

  11. #11
    Registered User Regulus's Avatar
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    Slo-go'en,

    I'll have to look into those camping regulations, I wasn't aware of them. I'm a stealth camper.

    I have two scenarios (we have a point system at work which allows me to extend my actual 80 holiday hours):

    1 - Leave work @ 2:30 Aug 15th. My first full day on the trail starts the 16th. I would return on Sep 3rd to go back to work on the 4th. That's 18 full hiking days, or 15.2 miles/day.

    2 - Leave work @ 2:30 Aug 15th. My first full day on the trail starts the 16th. I would return on Aug 28th to go back to work on the 29th. That's 13 full hiking days, or 21 miles/day.

    I won't be taking any zero days and would make my plans to be in and out of towns for resupply (if not have my girlfriend bring resupply to me). I'm not trying to break any records, not that I physically could, but I enjoy pushing myself. Getting up early and hiking until dark. The image I posted reflects my 2017 AT thru-hike attempt so I was thinking marathon, not sprint. Thoughts?
    AT 2017 Springer To Hot Springs.JPG

  12. #12

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    18 full days is more realistic. It still falls on the fast side of the bell curve, but it's not exceptional. Still, you do have to be in pretty darn good shape to pull it off. This can't be your first hike in a year.

    If you are in good shape, consider SOBO to get the hard stuff out of the way first and where you have the most limited camping options. By the time you get past Mt Abraham you can really pick up steam. Then your into the National Forest and moving right along. If it does take longer then you expect, at least you got the more interesting part of the LT done.

    The GMC Facebook page is a good resource.
    The AT - It has it's ups and downs...

  13. #13
    4eyedbuzzard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Regulus View Post
    Slo-go'en,

    I'll have to look into those camping regulations, I wasn't aware of them. I'm a stealth camper.

    I have two scenarios (we have a point system at work which allows me to extend my actual 80 holiday hours):

    1 - Leave work @ 2:30 Aug 15th. My first full day on the trail starts the 16th. I would return on Sep 3rd to go back to work on the 4th. That's 18 full hiking days, or 15.2 miles/day.

    2 - Leave work @ 2:30 Aug 15th. My first full day on the trail starts the 16th. I would return on Aug 28th to go back to work on the 29th. That's 13 full hiking days, or 21 miles/day.

    I won't be taking any zero days and would make my plans to be in and out of towns for resupply (if not have my girlfriend bring resupply to me). I'm not trying to break any records, not that I physically could, but I enjoy pushing myself. Getting up early and hiking until dark. The image I posted reflects my 2017 AT thru-hike attempt so I was thinking marathon, not sprint. Thoughts?
    AT 2017 Springer To Hot Springs.JPG
    What you posted is about a 17 mpd average not considering the zero day. So, on the southern part of the LT, you may maintain that pace. It's probably similar difficulty. But up north, that translates to 10 mpd, maybe 12 mpd if you really push it. There just isn't much in the southern mountains that can compare difficulty wise.

  14. #14
    Registered User Regulus's Avatar
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    Wow! I'm surprised at how difficult it is up there, sounds like the difficulty of the Whites.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Regulus View Post
    Wow! I'm surprised at how difficult it is up there, sounds like the difficulty of the Whites.
    Basically.

    Can actually be worse depending on mud

    Many hikers make 70-75% of their daily mpd avg in whites.

    And it usually rains every night. Les monts verts are vert for a reason.
    Last edited by MuddyWaters; 03-07-2019 at 19:03.

  16. #16
    Registered User Regulus's Avatar
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    How are the trail conditions in late August to Labor Day (temps/precipitation/mud/insects/crowds)?

  17. #17
    4eyedbuzzard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Regulus View Post
    Wow! I'm surprised at how difficult it is up there, sounds like the difficulty of the Whites.
    The footing is consistently more difficult than the Whites. More like western ME - but without the (cough) easier parts. Late August / early September are the best time to hike it. Best temperatures, less bugs, mud at it's minimum. Even so, as previously stated, they are the Green Mountains for a reason. Generally, there will be more people on weekends and at summits (peakbagging). That time of year also sees college outings mostly around Jay, Mansfield, Camel's Hump, etc, but during the week you'll not have crowds like on the AT or in the Whites.
    Last edited by 4eyedbuzzard; 03-07-2019 at 19:45.

  18. #18
    Registered User Regulus's Avatar
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    That sounds good! As a caveat, I was 5' 8" and 263 pounds of solid fat when I hiked through the early potion of the AT in '17 and hadn't hiked since '08. I'm 30 pounds lighter now and plan to be in "better" condition when I start this. That being said, I've been watching some videos of LT thru-hikes and that northern 1/2 gets steeper and steeper. I'm looking immensely forward to this!

  19. #19

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    Trail conditions in August are generally good. It only takes one good T-storm to freshen up the mud though. But by late August thunder storms are mostly gone and it's starting to cool off and nights can start to get chilly. The reason for the mud is the glaciers scored little shallow depressions out of the granite ledge the trail is on. Over time the depressions filled up with dirt and organic matter. These pockets don't drain so it has to be dry for a long time for all the water to evaporate out.

    I did the northern 30 miles with a friend a few years back in late July and the only time we weren't knee deep in mud was while going steeply up or down hill. At the bottom it's always a wet and muddy bog. Granted it had rained a lot in the two weeks prior. Hint: poke into the mud ahead of you to find a place solid enough to stand on. I teetered on a sunken log in the middle of one of these mud traps and sunk my poles down to their handles. It was real trick to stand back up without falling in!

    Late August is when the collage groups show up. They send groups of 10 freshmen out for a few days for bonding trips. All the ivy leagues are represented, Yale, Harvard, Princeton, etc. They try to stay out of the shelters (but if it's raining, don't count on it). There is some co-ordination between schools so two groups don't show up at the same place at the same time, but there will be a group at every shelter site along the AT from NJ to NH during this time.

    Here's a typical section of trail we had to trudge through:
    SAM_1582.JPG
    The AT - It has it's ups and downs...

  20. #20

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    Oh, and the LT always finds the most difficult route possible. Why go around when you can go over? My motto for the LT is "No Mercy". Want to climb up there? Okay lets just go straight up the side. Wait until you see the ladders. But that's what makes it interesting.
    The AT - It has it's ups and downs...

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