Page 7 of 15 FirstFirst ... 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 ... LastLast
Results 121 to 140 of 284
  1. #121

    Default

    We have a canoe on the AT. Maybe we can have a raft too.

  2. #122
    -
    Join Date
    08-14-2005
    Location
    Fort Madison, IA
    Age
    57
    Posts
    1,624

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 4eyedbuzzard View Post
    It's more about engineering and public safety.

    somewhere within NPS an engineer (and staff) is going to have to assess the scope of the repair project, sign off on the repair and process, a project manager (and staff) will have to get involved and do an RFP (request for proposal/bid) and then go out for bids, a contract will be awarded, a contractor is going to have to perform the work, etc.

    and at every step of the way there will be the "what if"

    CSX, NPS, the engineering firm, the contractor will all be looking at the liability if people on the bridge are hit by a train

  3. #123
    -
    Join Date
    08-14-2005
    Location
    Fort Madison, IA
    Age
    57
    Posts
    1,624

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by rickb View Post
    Time for a reroute.

    A required shuttle doesn’t cut it.
    20 million for a separate pedestrian bridge?

  4. #124
    Registered User
    Join Date
    01-23-2019
    Location
    Harpers ferry wv.
    Age
    56
    Posts
    602

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by rickb View Post
    Time for a reroute.

    A required shuttle doesn’t cut it.
    Yes I concur! But not alot of options here as that has been discussed, without that very dangerous rt. 340 walk south to keptryst rd to sandy hook rd, which is all very dangerous walking. It would be a very long and dangerous walk for 1 hiker not to mention 2 or more. And people would miss Hf and the ATC and not getting their picture taken, not gonna happen. Yeah quite the quagmire to be in. If folks were ok with missing Hf and the ATC and missing about 3 miles or so of the AT they could walk south on rt 340 for about 1 mile where the AT crosses under rt 340 and walk down to and continue north. But that's alot what ifs and alot to miss out on I suppose.

  5. #125

    Default

    No need to inject politics into the thread folks. Keep it out of the thread and off the forum.
    "Sleepy alligator in the noonday sun
    Sleepin by the river just like he usually done
    Call for his whisky
    He can call for his tea
    Call all he wanta but he can't call me..."
    Robert Hunter & Ron McKernan

    Whiteblaze.net User Agreement.

  6. #126
    ME => GA 19AT3 rickb's Avatar
    Join Date
    12-12-2002
    Location
    Marlboro, MA
    Posts
    6,990
    Journal Entries
    1
    Images
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JNI64 View Post
    Yes I concur! But not alot of options here as that has been discussed, without that very dangerous rt. 340 walk south to keptryst rd to sandy hook rd, which is all very dangerous walking. It would be a very long and dangerous walk for 1 hiker not to mention 2 or more. And people would miss Hf and the ATC and not getting their picture taken, not gonna happen. Yeah quite the quagmire to be in. If folks were ok with missing Hf and the ATC and missing about 3 miles or so of the AT they could walk south on rt 340 for about 1 mile where the AT crosses under rt 340 and walk down to and continue north. But that's alot what ifs and alot to miss out on I suppose.
    You could have a blue blaze into Harpers Ferry, as was the case before the footpath on the rail bridge was built.

    There is nothing sacred about having the AT pass through Harpers Ferry’s.

    There is something sacred about maintaining the AT as an unbroken pathway.

    A route must be found for 2020 hikers.

    The ATC is in the best position to suggest/find/build the safest one.

  7. #127
    Furlough's Avatar
    Join Date
    03-17-2004
    Location
    Northern Virginia
    Age
    59
    Posts
    884
    Images
    124

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by rickb View Post
    There is nothing sacred about having the AT pass through Harpers Ferry’s. There is something sacred about maintaining the AT as an unbroken pathway. A route must be found for 2020 hikers. The ATC is in the best position to suggest/find/build the safest one.
    The Tuscarora Trail - a 252 mile re-route.
    Established in the 1960's as an alternate route for the Appalachian Trail (AT), the Tuscarora Trail is a 250-mile long trail through the Ridge and Valley Appalachians of Virginia, West Virginia, Maryland and Pennsylvania. More recently, sections of the Tuscarora from Mill Mountain in West Virginia to Cove Mountain in Pennsylvania, have been included in the long-distance Great Eastern Trail. A hiking destination in its own right, the Tuscarora Trail leaves the AT near Mathews Arm Campground in Shenandoah National Park making its way west and north to rejoin the AT atop Blue Mountain, 10 miles south of Duncannon, Pa. Coupling the experience of remote wilderness, green pastures, small towns, rugged tread-way and country back roads, the Tuscarora offers a truly unique hiking adventure.

    Furlough

    "Too often I would hear men boast of the miles covered that day, rarely of what they had seen." Louis L’Amour

  8. #128

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by George View Post
    and at every step of the way there will be the "what if" CSX, NPS, the engineering firm, the contractor will all be looking at the liability if people on the bridge are hit by a train
    You would prefer they did not hold that concern during construction and the integrity of the pedestrian bridge in long term? Responsible entities keep that consideration high in this type of situation. Irresponsible ones do not, which is why we have collapses like the Miami pedestrian bridge and too many others to mention. I would prefer this to be done right, frankly I am not sure why anyone wouldn't.

  9. #129
    4eyedbuzzard's Avatar
    Join Date
    01-02-2007
    Location
    DFW, TX / Northern NH
    Age
    63
    Posts
    7,965
    Images
    27

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by George View Post
    and at every step of the way there will be the "what if"

    CSX, NPS, the engineering firm, the contractor will all be looking at the liability if people on the bridge are hit by a train
    Quote Originally Posted by George View Post
    20 million for a separate pedestrian bridge?
    Quote Originally Posted by Traveler View Post
    You would prefer they did not hold that concern during construction and the integrity of the pedestrian bridge in long term? Responsible entities keep that consideration high in this type of situation. Irresponsible ones do not, which is why we have collapses like the Miami pedestrian bridge and too many others to mention. I would prefer this to be done right, frankly I am not sure why anyone wouldn't.
    Here is my biggest concern. And yeah, I'm one of those what-if type people when it's warranted.

    Because, but for the good fortune that this event occurred at 3am on a winter night rather than 3pm on a summer day, the scene just prior to the derailment might have looked like this:



    These young people are exactly why we will keep asking what-if. They are why a full assessment of not only the mechanical repair of what previously existed must be performed, but why an analysis of the derailment and how to ensure it isn't repeated must be done, and why a full reassessment of the routing itself may need to be taken into consideration as well. They are why we'll worry about the safety aspects first, and the costs and timeliness second.

  10. #130

    Default

    Traveler, I think you might possibly have misinterpreted what George meant. Reading this thread says to me that you, George, 4eyedbuzzard are likely engineers, project managers, project accountants or procurement professionals with understanding of how government procurement works.
    Trillium

  11. #131
    Registered User
    Join Date
    04-04-2017
    Location
    Central CT
    Age
    33
    Posts
    223

    Default

    Sorry I mentioned politics, I wasn't trying to start anything or sound ignorant towards safety concerns. I didn't mean what a lot of people would think of as politics either but there's some in everything... like in the building/carpentry field you have all sorts of ridiculous new codes every year because of the hardware companies. I was talking to a building inspector about how meaningless some stuff is and he shook his head and said its all these companies at their meetings pushing the importance of all these products and nobody's saying anything against it... That's just a small example of what I was getting it. I know nothing about the bridge process but figured something like that had to be going on because it does with everything, but I shouldn't of said anything and apologize.
    Last edited by LazyLightning; 01-19-2020 at 12:20.
    NoDoz
    nobo 2018 March 10th - October 19th
    -
    I'm just one too many mornings and 1,000 miles behind

  12. #132
    GA-ME 2011
    Join Date
    03-17-2007
    Location
    Baltimore, MD
    Age
    62
    Posts
    3,068
    Images
    9

    Default

    I understand the concern with future accidents on the bridge. However railroads run through towns and cities in extremely close proximity to people everywhere, sometimes with catastrophic results, and yet they rebuild and carry on.
    "Chainsaw" GA-ME 2011

  13. #133
    Is it raining yet?
    Join Date
    07-15-2004
    Location
    Kensington, MD
    Age
    43
    Posts
    903
    Images
    51

    Default

    How many thousands of trains and millions of people have walked over that bridge w/o incident? Life is not w/o risk. Don't try to ruin a good thing w/ hysterics.
    Be Prepared

  14. #134

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LazyLightning View Post
    Sorry I mentioned politics, I wasn't trying to start anything or sound ignorant towards safety concerns. I didn't mean what a lot of people would think of as politics either but there's some in everything... like in the building/carpentry field you have all sorts of ridiculous new codes every year because of the hardware companies. I was talking to a building inspector about how meaningless some stuff is and he shook his head and said its all these companies at their meetings pushing the importance of all these products and nobody's saying anything against it... That's just a small example of what I was getting it. I know nothing about the bridge process but figured something like that had to be going on because it does with everything, but I shouldn't of said anything and apologize.
    i knew what you meant (bureaucracy in general) and that's why I left your post up. Other folks started to run with it or responded to the deleted posts.

    Enough said on that score though.
    "Sleepy alligator in the noonday sun
    Sleepin by the river just like he usually done
    Call for his whisky
    He can call for his tea
    Call all he wanta but he can't call me..."
    Robert Hunter & Ron McKernan

    Whiteblaze.net User Agreement.

  15. #135
    Furlough's Avatar
    Join Date
    03-17-2004
    Location
    Northern Virginia
    Age
    59
    Posts
    884
    Images
    124

    Default

    Originally Posted by rickb
    There is nothing sacred about having the AT pass through Harpers Ferry’s. There is something sacred about maintaining the AT as an unbroken pathway. A route must be found for 2020 hikers. The ATC is in the best position to suggest/find/build the safest one.
    Quote Originally Posted by Furlough View Post
    The Tuscarora Trail - a 252 mile re-route.
    Or back to my suggestion at post #52.
    "Too often I would hear men boast of the miles covered that day, rarely of what they had seen." Louis L’Amour

  16. #136

    Default

    Just found out Google Earth street view lets you walk across the bridge

    This confirmed that there are stone pillers for a bridge which used to cross the river, just off to the side of the current tracks. Two of which are still intact and two which are gone. I was pretty sure I had noticed them when I crossed last year.

    Rather then repair the current walkway, maybe it would be better to build a new foot bridge on the old pillers. These likely date to before the Civil war, so could be of historical significant to restore. But then, it did cost a million dollars to covert an existing RR bridge into a foot path over the James River in VA.
    Follow slogoen on Instagram.

  17. #137
    4eyedbuzzard's Avatar
    Join Date
    01-02-2007
    Location
    DFW, TX / Northern NH
    Age
    63
    Posts
    7,965
    Images
    27

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Slo-go'en View Post
    Just found out Google Earth street view lets you walk across the bridge

    This confirmed that there are stone pillers for a bridge which used to cross the river, just off to the side of the current tracks. Two of which are still intact and two which are gone. I was pretty sure I had noticed them when I crossed last year.

    Rather then repair the current walkway, maybe it would be better to build a new foot bridge on the old pillers. These likely date to before the Civil war, so could be of historical significant to restore. But then, it did cost a million dollars to covert an existing RR bridge into a foot path over the James River in VA.
    Here's some history on the bridge(s) for you - just killin' time http://www.wvculture.org/shpo/nr/pdf...n/78001484.pdf

  18. #138
    Registered User
    Join Date
    01-23-2019
    Location
    Harpers ferry wv.
    Age
    56
    Posts
    602

    Default

    Wow, so cool thanks so much for putting that up. Absolutely amazing what they were capable of way back then. No hydraulics, no laser assistance leveling, no concrete truck pumps. Just amazes me. Alot of pick and axe and unreliable dynamite. So if I'm reading it correctly they built a new bridge to accommodate the new speeds of trains and take out the drastic curves as well as tunneling through the mountain? And the old bridge which we can still see the concrete pillars was wiped out by the flood of 1936? And some guy named Harper used to ferry people across up 1794 ?hence harpers ferry. Thanks again for this. And how the hell did they do concrete pillars in the middle a river back then?

  19. #139
    4eyedbuzzard's Avatar
    Join Date
    01-02-2007
    Location
    DFW, TX / Northern NH
    Age
    63
    Posts
    7,965
    Images
    27

    Default

    A little research (without links) while just killin' time. The track that the derailment occurred on is a dead ended 30+ mile secondary line that serves grain customer(s) in Winchester, VA area. Typically the railroad hauls 50 to 65 loaded grain cars there, then hauls the empties back out. It isn't a heavily used line. The curve radius at the bridge approach is somewhere between 300 and 330 feet. It meets the absolute minimum radius (288 ft) for North American rail lines but not on lines for general service. The minimum radius for general service is 410 ft. The preferred minimum on freight main lines is 574 ft.It's an old bridge (1894), and an old rail system - with sharp curves at the bridge approach that wouldn't likely be built today. Speed and tractive effort/force need to be carefully controlled on short radius curves, which is one of the theories regarding why this accident happened. Short radius curves also have increased rail maintenance and failure issues due to the force of train wheels pushing against the sides of the rails as they go around the curve.

    Given that the track right next to the walkway is so infrequently used, it would seem that one possible choice that would both increase safety and expedite resolving the break in the AT footpath would be to rebuild the pedestrian bridge but simply prohibit people from being on it for the few minutes while a train was crossing. Nothing wrong with keeping moving trains and people away from each other.

  20. #140
    ME => GA 19AT3 rickb's Avatar
    Join Date
    12-12-2002
    Location
    Marlboro, MA
    Posts
    6,990
    Journal Entries
    1
    Images
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 4eyedbuzzard View Post
    Here is my biggest concern. And yeah, I'm one of those what-if type people when it's warranted.

    Because, but for the good fortune that this event occurred at 3am on a winter night rather than 3pm on a summer day, the scene just prior to the derailment might have looked like this:



    These young people are exactly why we will keep asking what-if. They are why a full assessment of not only the mechanical repair of what previously existed must be performed, but why an analysis of the derailment and how to ensure it isn't repeated must be done, and why a full reassessment of the routing itself may need to be taken into consideration as well. They are why we'll worry about the safety aspects first, and the costs and timeliness second.
    Whether one agrees with this mentality or not, it will drive all future decision making. The NPS and others (not CSX) have made that clear.

    The ATC does not have the luxury of hoping the footpath over the bridge will be rebuilt anytime soon.

    They need to put maximum effort into an alternative route now.

    Required shuttles are not a solution.

    If Harpers Ferry ends up down a blue blaze, then so be it!

Page 7 of 15 FirstFirst ... 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 ... LastLast
++ New Posts ++

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •