The What if? shelter closures

[wolfywolfy]

I am planning a section hike this year in the Smokies. I am wondering If I have a reservation lets just say on a Tuesday night and they close the shelter I have reservations for what am I supposed to do for that night.
I would not reservations for the next shelter and possibly if arriving at say 6-7pm would not be able to hike that much further (say another 12 miles as I hike about 1.5 mph)
The instructions on the permit and reservation site really do not tell you what to do if they close it only that you will get an email/text and that you are expected to stay at your reserved spot on said nights.

[blackmagic]

Seems like a question for the forest rangers.

In general, it's a good idea to go always include an emergency shelter in your pack, even just a Mylar bivy, in case you or someone in your party are injured and have to wait for rescue.

[Traveler]

Seems like a question for the forest rangers.

In general, it's a good idea to go always include an emergency shelter in your pack, even just a Mylar bivy, in case you or someone in your party are injured and have to wait for rescue.

Agreed with this, it's always a good idea to carry a shelter during a long distance trek, regardless of where you are or what shelter reservations have been made. It's hard to tell when shelters will fill up and require a carried shelter to be used, especially when weather rolls in.

[Slo-go'en]

The only reason a shelter would be closed would be for bear activity and that you should be aware of before you leave.

[Deadeye]

I've seen a few shelters burn down over the years. Always carry your own shelter.

[Slo-go'en]

I've seen a few shelters burn down over the years. Always carry your own shelter.

We're talking Smokie mountains here. It would take some serious effort to burn one of those down. At best maybe you could char the sleeping platform a little.

If you can't make it to your designated shelter, you'd best have a damn good reason - like two broken legs and a concussion.

[FreeGoldRush]

If you can't make it to your designated shelter, you'd best have a damn good reason - like two broken legs and a concussion.

It happens all the time. It’s usually just inexperience. People carry too much weight, are out of shape, planned too many miles, etc.

[HooKooDooKu]

I've seen a few shelters burn down over the years. Always carry your own shelter.

While not impossible, it's extremely unlikely for a GSMNP shelter to burn down. The walls are stone and the roof is tin. Only the sleeping platforms, rafters and cooking/eating area tables are wood.
Add to that, GSMNP is so humid that even forest fires are extremely rare (the fire of 2016 during EXTREME drought conditions being a notable exception).

However, it's VERY COMMON for the LeConte and AT shelters to be closed due to bear activity during the warmer months. I would estimate that on average, there is always one shelter closed due to bear activity between Memorial Day and Halloween.

So unless you're doing the AT thru GSMNP on a thru hiker permit during the Spring bubble, you have to expect that at least one of the shelters will be closed during a section hike of the AT thru GSMNP.

[John B]

I've seen a few shelters burn down over the years. Always carry your own shelter.

I agree about always carrying a tent or whatever shelter is your preference, but what shelters have burned on the AT?

[TNhiker]

Add to that, GSMNP is so humid that even forest fires are extremely rare

there's about one or two a year it seems on average....

most are reported (at least by us) because they are either small or don't affect people....

most of these are ones that the park just keeps a watch on to see how they spread and it they are natural and all that....

and for the most part, if they dont affect people and arent spreading too much---the Park just lets them burn out naturally....

[HooKooDooKu]

there's about one or two a year it seems on average....

most are reported (at least by us) because they are either small or don't affect people....

most of these are ones that the park just keeps a watch on to see how they spread and it they are natural and all that....

and for the most part, if they dont affect people and arent spreading too much---the Park just lets them burn out naturally....

I knew the park occasionally did controlled burns... and now that you mention it, I recall a few news stories over the years about some relatively small fires. But didn't realize they occurred with that much frequency.

However, a google search quickly finds one of the larger fires... a 10 acre fire in 2014. Like you say, the park service watched the fire and allowed it to burn. But the news article I found points out another reason these fires are allowed to burn... in this case, the fire spreading thru a Table Mountain Pine stand, and these trees "need periodic disturbances for seedling establishment".

[Teacher & Snacktime]

I agree about always carrying a tent or whatever shelter is your preference, but what shelters have burned on the AT?

https://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/sho...ers-Burnt-Down

[Deadeye]

I agree about always carrying a tent or whatever shelter is your preference, but what shelters have burned on the AT?

I couldn't answer that, but Tucker Johnson on the LT just north of Maine junction is one of many that have burned on the LT in Vermont over the years. Most are wood, many have fire pits, all are periodically occupied by humans that sometimes do stupid things like burn shelters down - accidentally or intentionally.

The bigger point is you just never know what you'll find when you get there, so carrying your own shelter is just plain smart.

[HooKooDooKu]

I'm afraid the rules are pretty simple... The official policy is that you can only camp at designated sites and you can only camp with a reservation. If a site on your itinerary becomes closed, the rangers will work with you to adjust your reservations... including allowing you to cancel your trip and be issued a refund {one of the few ways to get a refund on your camping fees}.

However, your third sentence seems to suggest your specific question is along the lines of "What do I do if they close a site on my itinerary AFTER I've started my hike and I don't find out until I get to the closed campsite?".
There is no official policy for this type of situation, but based on my interactions with park rangers, the overriding priority is safety. You are unlikely to get in trouble if my make a sincere effort to follow park regulations, yet go outside of them for your safety.

[FreeGoldRush]

Make a best effort to sleep in the shelter you are permitted to sleep in. Carry a tent/hammock/tarp/bivy or whatever you need and then find a cozy place near some trees if plan A did not work, regardless of the reason. You can’t anticipate everything that may happen.

[HooKooDooKu]

Your question seems to suggest that you're only hiking the AT thru GSMNP and only plan to stay at shelters.
I'm going to jump on the band-wagon of those suggesting you also carry some sort of shelter in case you are unable to sleep in a shelter on some given night.

First is the obvious reason that you could become injured and unable to make it to the next shelter.

The next is that you might arrive at a shelter and find it full.
Reasons can include people camping without permits, people who are "off sequence" (planned for more mileage per day that they were able to do), or AT thru hikers who are supposed to give up their spot in a shelter to a hiker with a reservation (but doesn't want to because it's raining).
I've asked rangers about this type situation and their attitude is that "it can't happen... you have a reservation for the shelter".
But these are all reasons you might get to a shelter and be unable to sleep in the shelter. In that case, you need to be able to setup shelter near by, and be ready to explain to a ranger the reason for staying outside the shelter should one come around.

[Analog_Kidd]

You should check the gsmnp closure page just before you leave and make sure your shelters are open. You should also get an email if they do close one. If they do close one, you'll need to call the reservation office and make alternate plans. They should allow you to make changes, or refund your money.

The advise to carry a Tarp or tent is good. Especially if you are hiking during the AT bubble. The thru hikers get a general permit that allows them to stay at any shelter, and they don't show up as a space taken on the reservation page. They are supposed to give up their spot to anyone with a reservation, but are you the kind of person to start asking to see reservations and insisting someone leave the shelter to make room for you? If you roll in late there is a possibility the spots are already claimed. First thing I do at any shelter is roll out my pad and stake my claim. In a full shelter, I'd rather set up my tent nearby and let a ranger deal with the issue of one shows up.

[TNhiker]

The only reason a shelter would be closed would be for bear activity and that you should be aware of before you leave.

that is not true.....

they have closed shelters down for other reasons-----for example, about 12-15 years ago, they closed a shelter down for an entire month so that one of the trail groups could use it for a base of operation when they were doing work in that area............

i hiked by it and saw how they had it set up (with a car camping propane two burner stove, a fence around the cooking area, and a oujia board).......

[HooKooDooKu]

that is not true.....

they have closed shelters down for other reasons-----for example, about 12-15 years ago, they closed a shelter down for an entire month so that one of the trail groups could use it for a base of operation when they were doing work in that area............

i hiked by it and saw how they had it set up (with a car camping propane two burner stove, a fence around the cooking area, and a oujia board).......

Not a shelter, but I saw a similar setup in the Deep Creek area last year where they had taken over an entire campsite for tail maintenance. It was funny seeing weed-whackers hanging from the bear cables.

[Slo-go'en]

that is not true.....

they have closed shelters down for other reasons-----for example, about 12-15 years ago, they closed a shelter down for an entire month so that one of the trail groups could use it for a base of operation when they were doing work in that area............

i hiked by it and saw how they had it set up (with a car camping propane two burner stove, a fence around the cooking area, and a oujia board).......

Well, in a case like that they wouldn't issue a permit for that shelter in the first place. I stand by my comment that the only reason a shelter might close between the time your issued your permit and the time of the hike would be if it was suddenly closed for bear activity reasons. While it might be possible that could happen while your on the trail and before you get to that shelter, it's unlikely.