Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 1 2
Results 21 to 35 of 35
  1. #21
    Registered User
    Join Date
    10-25-2009
    Location
    Wake Forest, North Carolina
    Age
    61
    Posts
    332
    Images
    36

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Starchild View Post
    Part of the problem is the fuel is cold, and holds the cold through thermal mass and evaporative cooling. The fuel is 'protecting itself' from the heat much like a ablative heat shield on a spacecraft reentering the atmosphere as fuel evaporates and that forms a protective and insulated layer limiting runaway evaporation. This is good when you use the stove in the conditions that it was designed around, however outside those temperature ranges it works against you.

    In that you are just getting less fuel to evaporate to burn till the fuel warms up, but with that stove the fire is outside the stove, so much of that heat (radiation and convection) doesn't heat the fuel, which is usually a feature, not a bug.

    So the fuel must be warmed up, or the stove modified to work better in the cold. Suggestions: Perhaps priming it by letting it burn openly at first, or hovering the pot above the fire instead of placing the pot down on top, letting it center burn for a while before placing the pot down and then using the ports. Another suggestion would be placing it in a shallow dish and putting fuel in that dish to ignite first may help. Perhaps a copper strip could be used as some use with a canister stove where part of the strip would go under the can and then bend up through the flame at one port.
    When it's below 50ish I always use a primer disk. My disk is like super heavy weight aluminum foil. When I'm ready to boil, I will put as much fuel in the stove as I think all need to get a boil.Temp and how much water I'm using dictate the amount. Usually .75oz to 1 oz.. then I put around half a teaspoon fuel (maybe less) in the disk. One match lights them both. I then slowly (10-15 sec)lower the Kettle down to the stove. If it is cold like 30 down to around 20, I may have to hold the pot just over the stove for 30 - 40 seconds. I put the wind screen so it hugs the Kettle(1/4 inch all around). Some time I'll put a small twig or two under the screen, to add air flow upwards.

    I had to figure how to make this stove work in the cold, because I had no plan "B" and really did not want a cold supper. I know there are faster, more efficient methods out there. This stove is one of my favorite pieces of gear. Weight of 1qt Kettle, under disk, stove, wind screen, matches (in an old school steel holder) Mini-bic, 12"x12" MSR towel and stuff sack = 10.8oz
    ______
    /l ,[____],
    l---L -OlllllllO-
    ()_) ()_)--o-)_)


  2. #22

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Starchild View Post
    Part of the problem is the fuel is cold, and holds the cold through thermal mass and evaporative cooling. The fuel is 'protecting itself' from the heat much like a ablative heat shield on a spacecraft reentering the atmosphere as fuel evaporates and that forms a protective and insulated layer limiting runaway evaporation. This is good when you use the stove in the conditions that it was designed around, however outside those temperature ranges it works against you.

    In that you are just getting less fuel to evaporate to burn till the fuel warms up, but with that stove the fire is outside the stove, so much of that heat (radiation and convection) doesn't heat the fuel, which is usually a feature, not a bug.

    So the fuel must be warmed up, or the stove modified to work better in the cold. Suggestions: Perhaps priming it by letting it burn openly at first, or hovering the pot above the fire instead of placing the pot down on top, letting it center burn for a while before placing the pot down and then using the ports. Another suggestion would be placing it in a shallow dish and putting fuel in that dish to ignite first may help. Perhaps a copper strip could be used as some use with a canister stove where part of the strip would go under the can and then bend up through the flame at one port.
    Watch this guy light his fancy feast alcohol stove and alcohol at -3 degrees at 2:45 in the video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XQVKLlLQjw
    If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything.

  3. #23

    Default

    Here is my fancy feast stove cook kit (for some reason I can't get the one picture to be right side up when I upload it). Everything fits in the 0.7L IMUSA cup. I made a lid for the pot by sawing off the bottom of another 0.7L cup. The small ring next to cup is simmer ring cut from the top of a fancy feast can. I wrapped a silicon band around the handle of the cup to insulate it so I wouldn't burn my fingers on the hot handle but that doesn't work well so I use the carbon felt as a pot holder. The wind screen is made from an aluminum oven liner. The silver disc by the windscreen is a circle of corrugated plastic (like yard signs are made of) covered with metal HVAC tape that I use under the stove to protect picnic tables when I am using the stove. The plastic doesn't melt from the heat. I light the stove with the Light-My-Fire striker rather than a bic lighter. The whole kit weighs 6.3oz.
    cookpot.jpgkit .jpg
    Attached Images Attached Images
    If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything.

  4. #24
    Registered User
    Join Date
    02-01-2016
    Location
    Chattanooga, Tennessee
    Posts
    858

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TexasBob View Post
    Watch this guy light his fancy feast alcohol stove and alcohol at -3 degrees at 2:45 in the video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XQVKLlLQjw
    I've seen Shug get his alcohol stoves going in startlingly cold weather too. I suspect one thing that really helps is not having the cold pot of water right on the stove as with the Super Cat (if I have my terms right). The steel can in the middle of the traditional FF stove isn't as good at sucking away the heat from the stove as if you had the pot resting directly on it.
    Quote Originally Posted by TexasBob View Post
    Here is my fancy feast stove cook kit (for some reason I can't get the one picture to be right side up when I upload it). Everything fits in the 0.7L IMUSA cup. I made a lid for the pot by sawing off the bottom of another 0.7L cup. The small ring next to cup is simmer ring cut from the top of a fancy feast can. I wrapped a silicon band around the handle of the cup to insulate it so I wouldn't burn my fingers on the hot handle but that doesn't work well so I use the carbon felt as a pot holder.

    I had the same idea about the silicone band - but hadn't done it yet. Thanks for taking one of the team!

    Very clever about the lid design. You got a good even cut on that - nice job.

  5. #25
    Registered User
    Join Date
    10-17-2007
    Location
    Michigan
    Age
    60
    Posts
    4,689

    Default

    If you want to build a great stove, try a eCHS stove. I use it with an olicamp xts pot. Boils 2 cups of water on just few minutes and less than 15 mL fuel. Wind screen doubles as a pot stand, not significantly affected by cold, primes in just a few seconds.

  6. #26
    Registered User
    Join Date
    01-23-2019
    Location
    Harpers ferry wv.
    Age
    56
    Posts
    591

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TexasBob View Post
    Watch this guy light his fancy feast alcohol stove and alcohol at -3 degrees at 2:45 in the video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XQVKLlLQjw
    This is 1 of my home made faves. I also use mine in low temperatures to melt snow and cook. Nice having the optional longer burning times. I like taking my titanium 5 piece wood burning stove , super light and setting this alcohol stove in it ,super efficient. Then of course I have option of twig fire for boil.

  7. #27

    Default

    Here's and informative video from Spiguyver. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyLF1DazGoE

    I resisted the Caldera Cone for awhile because I considered the carrier to be dead weight.However,I am using the larger end of it for a pot cozy and the smaller section to measure water and make drinks in.Note,I only carry the Cone,spoon,fork,etc in the carrier.My Starlyte or the Kojin stove go in the pot lined with a drink can.

  8. #28

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Time Zone View Post
    .......The steel can in the middle of the traditional FF stove isn't as good at sucking away the heat from the stove as if you had the pot resting directly on it. ........
    I tried the FF stove with the steel can in the middle and carbon felt wicking but I did feel it worked as well as the ones in videos on Youtube. I don't know why it didn't. Then I tried the Bud aluminum bottle in the middle version with fiberglass wicking very similar to what Zelph sells and it worked much better. I have made at least 7 different types of DIY alcohol stoves over the years and for ease of use, simplicity and efficiency it is the winner. PM me and I will send you one to play with.
    If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything.

  9. #29

    Default

    Try putting more holes in your stove according to Jim Woods design of the Supercat Stove.

    http://jwbasecamp.com/Articles/SuperCat/

    His looks like this:


    Yours like this:

    Last edited by zelph; 02-23-2020 at 19:33. Reason: add photo

  10. #30
    Registered User
    Join Date
    02-01-2016
    Location
    Chattanooga, Tennessee
    Posts
    858

    Default

    Thanks for the thoughts, Zelph. You are definitely more expert than me on these things, but it seems to me that the pots in those two pictures above are so different in size that the the flame location (underneath vs. partially up the side) probably owes more to that than the number of holes. Wouldn't you think? Or are both an issue? I think I have 16 holes top row, 8 below. Looks like Jim Woods used 15 and 14? For one of his many variations.

    TexasBob, thank you for the offer, but I think for a similar reason (my pots are narrow relative to the FF stove), the steel tomato paste can will probably expose more of the underside of my pot than the aluminum stadium bottle inner would. I have a spare bottle at the ready should I wish to try that out too. I appreciate the thought! Stoving is quite addictive.

  11. #31

    Default

    i've used my zelph style diy fancy feast stove in 18* weather. stove, pot, alcohol & water was out all night. had to break the ice in the nalgene to poor the water in the pot. the stove worked fine. no waiting for it to bloom, no cold pot snuff out like with some pot pressurized stoves. the stove works the same in 18* as it does in 50*

  12. #32
    Registered User
    Join Date
    02-01-2016
    Location
    Chattanooga, Tennessee
    Posts
    858

    Default Update

    Just an update.

    After getting the steel inner can cut, filed, and so forth, I tried it with paper towel as wick (as demonstrated by Hiram in a video) rather than tear into the carbon felt* right away. I thought hey, even if that worked out to be one paper towel per use, that's pretty frugal and convenient. And indeed, it wicked the alcohol very well and didn't consume itself ... until the alcohol ran out. Then it was time for typical yellow flame wood-product burning - and accompanying soot. Not good!

    So I finally got into the Oatey fireproof stuff that was $15+tax at Home Depot. If zenstoves site is credible, it's not actually carbon felt, but PAN - Zoltek Pyron, which is an "oxidized/stabilized
    polyacrylonitrile (PAN) fiber". Whatever the heck that is! It has similar, but not identical, temperature rating to carbon fiber.

    I considered cutting the stuff a bit long and overlapping, in order to anticipate/combat shrinkage with use (as indicated by some users). However, I figured I could fill in gaps later, and if I cut things just right I could do a 7.5" strip across the bottom and leave 1.5" going the other way and thus use the 9"x12" more efficiently. This turned out to be smart, but not for the reason I planned. The stuff I ended up with was too thick to do ANY overlap between my 6 oz steel tomato paste can and the Fancy Feast can on the outside. In fact I had to trim about 1/4" or so from my 7.5" strip, and even then I had to use a blunt kitchen tool to stuff the material down the inside of the FF can. It was just so tight. So ... for what that's worth.

    I don't have time to do extensive controlled testing, so I just did a quick and dirty simulation of intended field conditions and tried to reasonably infer from there. I started with 2 cups water that had been cooled to the mid to upper 30s with ice. I put 1 oz of HEET in the FF stove. Set the stove just inside my garage with door open and cold breeze coming in (mid to upper 30s, 10 mph wind). It didn't light very quickly, which I suspect had to do with the dense, thick wick. After it caught, I put the pot on and found that it wasn't real stable on the little piece of wood I had put under it to insulate it from the concrete floor (cutoff bit of paint stirrer). So I quickly swapped that out for a foil-covered disc of foam. Also within the first minute or so I remembered I need to add the windscreen. So that first minute wasn't probably the most efficient. By the end of the 1 oz the temp had been raised 100F to 136F. A rolling boil took second burn with 1 more ounce of HEET. It might have been able to be done with a half an ounce, but I could not light the stove with just a half ounce of HEET. I guess it wasn't enough to travel up the wick. [Oh, and naturally i forgot a pot lid with the first burn, but used it on the second. I told ya my controls weren't very good!]

    w/r/t the first burn, there was a bit of fuel left in the center of the FF stove that had not wicked. Not much, but noticeably wet. Upon removing the pot when the wick went out, the center burned a bit longer.

    Perhaps if I put in 1.5-1.75 oz of fuel at the start I would be able to go from ~ 36F to 212F in one straight boil - esp. if I did everything right from the start (insulated base, windscreen, lid). Does that sound about right, in terms of fuel use? It is kind of a bummer that the stove isn't so great with <1 oz, like if you don't quite hit a needed rolling boil, but get close. Maybe as the wick gets more use and flattens, it'll work with smaller amounts better, IDK.

  13. #33
    Registered User
    Join Date
    02-01-2016
    Location
    Chattanooga, Tennessee
    Posts
    858

    Default Field Test

    Went near-backcountry over the past weekend and found that the the double-wall Fancy Feast stove sharply outperformed my "Super Cat" (which, IIRC, is the name for the side-burning, single-walled cat food can with holes around the upper half of the can). This was in approx 30-32F conditions. For one thing you don't have to wait for it to bloom. For another, the heat-sink effect of the cold water pot is muted by the steel inner can, which doesn't transmit heat to the stove as well as putting it directly on the cat food can.

    I also used the X-lite stove to heat some water. No rolling boil - it can barely hold 15ml at a time. But this was tap water I carried in, so no need to purify it. It was plenty hot for hot chocolate or tea. That one, you do have to wait for it to bloom, but if you hold the pot over the stove while it does so, you can get started warming it a bit. Gradually letting the pot get closer, and finally on the stove, after it blooms, it does not snuff it out. This was just 8 oz of water, though.

    BTW, neither the fuel nor the water was kept warm at all. They were left out all night (the larger 1L water bottles didn't freeze; the smaller skinny ones did), and things still performed really well. So, very happy with both stoves. Not sure I see myself going back to the Super Cat!

  14. #34

    Default

    Oh the joys of DIY stoves. Keep up the good work :-)

  15. #35

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by zelph View Post
    Try putting more holes in your stove according to Jim Woods design of the Supercat Stove.

    http://jwbasecamp.com/Articles/SuperCat/

    His looks like this:


    Yours like this:

    Here is a template I found for the number of holes and spacing. You print it out and tape it to the can.

    http://zenstoves.net/Templates/TemplateSuperCat.pdf
    If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything.

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 1 2
++ New Posts ++

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •