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  1. #141
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    AMC does analysis of accidents and rescues in Whites in their quarterly Appalachia Journal https://www.outdoors.org/trip-ideas-...ces/appalachia. (Note this is not the same as the AMC Outdoors magazine they send out to members)


    yeah....

    i went back and looked and made post #135




    They discuss what went right and what went wrong and try to add "lessons learned" as appropriate to future training scenarios. These are generally not public record.


    that is true-------and for some things that are public record, things get redacted out as well....

    that was the case with the bear death in the smokies back in 2000----the report was released by the Park, but lots of stuff was redacted...

    they also did not release the photos the lady took before she was attacked.........(she was out dayhiking and taking photos and presumably taking photos of the
    bears as they were coming up to her).....




    The family was unable to get closure and for years would pop up trying to force the case to be reopened as they could not accept that it was not foul play despite no evidence to the contrary.


    yeah...

    we---the media----get this a lot with families calling us demanding that there was a coverup or a conspiracy or something like that with a crime or incident that happened
    to their loved one.......

  2. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleolith54 View Post
    Who are "they" and why did they delay?
    Maine warden - only they know why they strung out the info release as long as they could - but logic says because the search was not optimal

  3. #143

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    That seems like a remarkable leap based on no information.

  4. #144
    Registered User soilman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by George View Post
    Maine warden - only they know why they strung out the info release as long as they could - but logic says because the search was not optimal
    Very unfair statement.
    More walking, less talking.

  5. #145
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    Just saw this on youtube. I was on Blood Mountain during the unexpected foot deep snow they had a few weeks back. North Georgia is definitely a very unforgiving place. I always carry gear for the worst possible situation and it really paid off on Blood Mt. Even still I got beat to crap coming off that mountain, fell countless times. Just had to keep on getting up. Water was also frozen, I ate snow to keep hydrated. Not ideal, but it worked well enough. RIP dude.

  6. #146
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    Water was also frozen, I ate snow to keep hydrated.

    didnt have a way to melt it?

  7. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by soilman View Post
    Very unfair statement.
    ok, what other explanation for waiting 3 yrs until they were forced to release the report

  8. #148

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    Quote Originally Posted by slammer View Post
    Just saw this on youtube. I was on Blood Mountain during the unexpected foot deep snow they had a few weeks back. North Georgia is definitely a very unforgiving place. I always carry gear for the worst possible situation and it really paid off on Blood Mt. Even still I got beat to crap coming off that mountain, fell countless times. Just had to keep on getting up. Water was also frozen, I ate snow to keep hydrated. Not ideal, but it worked well enough. RIP dude.
    Eating snow adds to risk of hypothermia so using fire or stove to melt it is preferred. You didn't die so we'll count this one as a win either way

    Quote Originally Posted by George View Post
    ok, what other explanation for waiting 3 yrs until they were forced to release the report
    Respect for the dead or a conspiracy involving the Maine branch of the Deep State reflecting the light of Venus off swamp gas in order to mislead the sheeple into never suspecting the Reverse Vampires were behind it all. Since you are posting as you are in this thread I'm going to assume respect for the dead isn't a viable explanation as far as you're concerned.

    On topic: RIP Eddie.
    “The man who goes alone can start today; but he who travels with another must wait until that other is ready...”~Henry David Thoreau

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  9. #149

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    I've been watching this thread for awhile to learn about what may have happened. I'm home sick today and have been scouring the news sources on the web about the probable cause - still nothing that I can find. Hopefully the information will be released in order to benefit the hoard of potential thru hikers, many who are very inexperienced, about to hit the trail.

  10. #150

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    Quote Originally Posted by LoneStranger View Post
    Respect for the dead or a conspiracy involving the Maine branch of the Deep State reflecting the light of Venus off swamp gas in order to mislead the sheeple into never suspecting the Reverse Vampires were behind it all. Since you are posting as you are in this thread I'm going to assume respect for the dead isn't a viable explanation as far as you're concerned.

    On topic: RIP Eddie.
    Nonsense. Informing the public about a rescue/recovery that used tax dollars should be SOP. "Respect for the dead" translates into needing a foia request

  11. #151

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    Quote Originally Posted by AsoloBootsSuk View Post
    Nonsense. Informing the public about a rescue/recovery that used tax dollars should be SOP. "Respect for the dead" translates into needing a foia request
    No.

    We don't need the complete, official government write up on every situation that happens. There was more than enough information available -long- before the report was released to make rational decisions about wilderness safety. Assuming that the government held onto a report that wasn't in the slightest way damning as part of some conspiracy is borderline deranged.

  12. #152

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    Quote Originally Posted by CalebJ View Post
    No.

    We don't need the complete, official government write up on every situation that happens. There was more than enough information available -long- before the report was released to make rational decisions about wilderness safety. Assuming that the government held onto a report that wasn't in the slightest way damning as part of some conspiracy is borderline deranged.
    I was not speaking about any specific incident. I'd like 100% transparency on these types of events. You may trust big brother, I do not

  13. #153

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    Quote Originally Posted by AsoloBootsSuk View Post
    I was not speaking about any specific incident. I'd like 100% transparency on these types of events. You may trust big brother, I do not
    The information is likely available, but you'd have to dig for it. It's not of general interest. The family certainly would want to know what might have happened beyond basic cause of death. Several agencies were likely involved. Are their reports all bundled together or do you have to look for them individually at the appropriate agencies? There maybe privacy issues too.

    The details aren't all that important, except knowing cause of death would be helpful in answering some basic questions. Like did he expire from hypothermia, a physical medical condition or an injury? Maybe a combination of all three. One condition can quickly lead to the others.

    The important lesson here is don't get lost!
    The AT - It has it's ups and downs...

  14. #154
    ME => GA 19AT3 rickb's Avatar
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    To me addition details would:

    A) Inform whether or not the search and rescue response was appropriate to the specific situation and,

    B) Help confirm or challenge the notion (which was presented as an absolute by one person in this thread) that the best course of action when lost is to “stay put” and,

    C) Potentially help educate the public on issues ranging from hypothermia, to other special considerations that some must consider before heading out on a hike

    I would think such details could be done in a respectful rather than a sensational way. They are what they are.

    Good to make them public, and widely available IMO.

  15. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by AsoloBootsSuk View Post
    I was not speaking about any specific incident. I'd like 100% transparency on these types of events. You may trust big brother, I do not
    You may like/want that (100% transparency) all you want, but generally HIPPA law applies for up to two years after death and there are also exceptions for denying FOIA requests. Those denials may be due to ongoing investigations, privacy of related parties, etc. Not everything is everybody else's business - even after death. And BTW, if it's Big Brother or a Deep State conspiracy you're looking for, I think you're looking in the wrong place. Government is less competent than you are giving it credit for. If you're looking for a sinister conspiracy, try Google, Facebook, Amazon, your phone carrier, your health insurance company, etc. They're in your head and wallet far more than the government.

  16. #156

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    Quote Originally Posted by AsoloBootsSuk View Post
    Nonsense. Informing the public about a rescue/recovery that used tax dollars should be SOP. "Respect for the dead" translates into needing a foia request
    We were informed. Everyone knew enough about what happened to know how to avoid a repeat and there was zero evidence leading to a rational suspicion that the RVs were involved.

    Your concern about how my tax dollars are spent is duly noted. As someone from away it will be given appropriate attention.
    “The man who goes alone can start today; but he who travels with another must wait until that other is ready...”~Henry David Thoreau

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  17. #157

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    Quote Originally Posted by LoneStranger View Post
    .... As someone from away it will be given appropriate attention.
    .......
    Huh? .

  18. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4eyedbuzzard View Post
    you may like/want that (100% transparency) all you want, but generally hippa law applies for up to two years after death and there are also exceptions for denying foia requests. Those denials may be due to ongoing investigations, privacy of related parties, etc. Not everything is everybody else's business - even after death. And btw, if it's big brother or a deep state conspiracy you're looking for, i think you're looking in the wrong place. Government is less competent than you are giving it credit for. If you're looking for a sinister conspiracy, try google, facebook, amazon, your phone carrier, your health insurance company, etc. They're in your head and wallet far more than the government.
    Well said.

  19. #159

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    Quote Originally Posted by rickb View Post
    To me addition details would:

    A) Inform whether or not the search and rescue response was appropriate to the specific situation and,

    B) Help confirm or challenge the notion (which was presented as an absolute by one person in this thread) that the best course of action when lost is to “stay put” and,

    C) Potentially help educate the public on issues ranging from hypothermia, to other special considerations that some must consider before heading out on a hike

    I would think such details could be done in a respectful rather than a sensational way. They are what they are.

    Good to make them public, and widely available IMO.
    This is a good standard to apply to these types of events. What the average hiker (much like pilots with aviation incidents) is looking for is information that helps prevent a similar situation or being able to recognize the links in the chain of events that can lead to a life threatening circumstance. What we cannot do easily is figure out why someone in a specific incident did what they did.

    For example, the question of why Kate Matrosova opted to continue into terrible conditions in the White Mountains that led to her death cannot be factually answered and likely never will. But we can learn from the SAR/R report of the weather and terrain conditions, the gear she had, if electronic communication failed or worked, and other evidence starting with the "go" decision. We can't determine if there was a medical issue or a thought process that impacted Gerry Largay's state of mind and caused her to remain in place for a month, but we can determine what the weather and terrain conditions were, see how the search was conducted, know the gear she had, if electronic communication/signal worked or not, and other physical evidence of that incident.

    The matter-of--fact language of these reports and that of NTSB and other investigative organizations following an event does provide the information necessary for interested parties to understand the circumstances and perhaps tuck away a fact or two that bubbles up when most needed. 4EB has a good point relative to HIPPA laws that protect patient privacy, which can delay some information release over time and would prevent some issues from being discussed in a report of this nature. However the SAR/R reports dealing with the physical evidence are typically presented in a manner people can learn from. Suggesting there is some kind of conspiracy to conceal evidence reminds me of a cartoon of three guys in a buried RV trailer, sitting around a dilapidated wood stove in their cami gear, eating cold beans from a can with a calendar in back of them showing expired and future "end of civilization" dates. Much as those fellows, we can only guess about why someone did what they did, and like the calendar all we have are the recorded facts in a report.

  20. #160

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    Any factual information regarding what may have contributed to the incident beyond the very basic information already provided will potentially be very helpful to the uninformed and at risk.
    Last edited by litetrek; 03-05-2020 at 13:14.

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