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  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by ldsailor View Post
    Maybe I missed it as I'm thinking someone must have mentioned this. There are many free GPS applications out there. I've had as many as three at one time on my phone. Currently, I have GPS Status. It's home screen has GPS latitude and longitude coordinates and a compass. Additionally, it has calibration capabilities for just about everything that requires calibration on my phone including the compass, accelerometer, gyroscope, gravity, etc.

    I can't imagine ever getting irretrievably lost on a hiking trail, but if I do, that app and Guthook would be accessed immediately. I would use Guthook and the GPS compass (I carry a handheld compass, too) to try to navigate out and the GPS app to report my latitude and longitude position if I felt that was necessary (and I could make a phone connection).

    I point this out, because I believe everyone should have a GPS app. I wouldn't rely on Google Maps especially if you can't get a data connection. Giving exact latitude and longitude coordinates to SAR/911 is about the best information you can give them. Even if the 911 operator doesn't understand what you are giving them, they can still write the information down.
    You can download offline maps to Google maps. While probably not the best for offroad usage, it is a good way to have a map when cell signal is spotty. When I travel out of my local area, I download offline maps of the area I'm travelling to.
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  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by perdidochas View Post
    The GPS is satellite driven. The App is probably cell phone data driven. However, you can download maps onto phones using certain apps. Google maps (for driving) gives that option.
    The compass app that comes standard on my Iphone (which also displays lat/long) runs off the GPS chip, so no cell signal needed. Anything is possible, but I'd be surprised to find an app like that that relied on having cell reception.

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleolith54 View Post
    The compass app that comes standard on my Iphone (which also displays lat/long) runs off the GPS chip, so no cell signal needed. Anything is possible, but I'd be surprised to find an app like that that relied on having cell reception.
    I believe the GPS Essentials app runs on my Android phone without a data (cell) connection. Test: I tried it with cell data and wifi off. It did take significantly longer to get a fix (up to about 2 minutes), but it did work. Says I'm outside, about 15 ft on the other side of the wall from where I'm sitting. It seems to go in and out and lose its lock/fix from time to time - but this is inside a house with a metal roof as well. So it works pretty darn well all things considered. I know that Guthooks definitely works without cell data, as will google maps - but only if you download the necessary map/trip in advance of leaving cellular data range (and don't close the maps app).

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleolith54 View Post
    The compass app that comes standard on my Iphone (which also displays lat/long) runs off the GPS chip, so no cell signal needed. Anything is possible, but I'd be surprised to find an app like that that relied on having cell reception.
    I occasionally find the Compass app on the iPhone to be miscalibrated and found that shaking the phone resets it. I've stood on an overlook clearly looking South and have it tell me it was North.

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slo-go'en View Post
    Very bizzar. Sudden onset of Dementia could explain it.

    Apparently they found some of his personal stuff near the hike inn. The first artical sounded like he had left all of it. I'd guess they found the daypack shown in the picture.

    Hope they find him soon and he has enough wits to use the gear he has with him.
    Family mentioned "confusion" - so sad... and hard for the family....

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Joe View Post
    I occasionally find the Compass app on the iPhone to be miscalibrated and found that shaking the phone resets it. I've stood on an overlook clearly looking South and have it tell me it was North.
    Yeah, it spooks me too. I never use it, just making a point about cell signal vs GPS in relation to navigation apps in general.

  7. #127
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    I don't know of any smart phone GPS app that requires a cell phone connection. GPS Status doesn't require it, and I have had GPS Essentials on my phone and it did not require it. How do I know? Well, I used both at various times to check position when hundreds of miles offshore in a sailboat. No cell towers out there!
    Trail Name - Slapshot
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  8. #128

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    Quote Originally Posted by ldsailor View Post
    I don't know of any smart phone GPS app that requires a cell phone connection. GPS Status doesn't require it, and I have had GPS Essentials on my phone and it did not require it. How do I know? Well, I used both at various times to check position when hundreds of miles offshore in a sailboat. No cell towers out there!
    You don’t need a cell connection to get GPS coordinates on a smart phone, but if you want a map to go with the coordinates you either need a cell connection, or have the maps already downloaded on the phone.

  9. #129

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Joe View Post
    I occasionally find the Compass app on the iPhone to be miscalibrated and found that shaking the phone resets it. I've stood on an overlook clearly looking South and have it tell me it was North.
    You're just ahead of your time

    Hiking alone was the risk he accepted. If this happened 30 years ago, he'd have been found in a few weeks, not a few days. Satellites and cell-towers do not make you safer. I say get on the self reliance train or stay home.

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by AsoloBootsSuk View Post
    ...Hiking alone was the risk he accepted...
    With all due respect to you and to the deceased and his family, and from what tiny bits of info that are public from the sheriff and his family, and from reading perhaps more between the lines than I should, I am not convinced that he knew the risks or was capable of making clear, reasoned decisions, not just during the time he was disoriented/lost, but even before the trip began.

  11. #131

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    Quote Originally Posted by John B View Post
    With all due respect to you and to the deceased and his family, and from what tiny bits of info that are public from the sheriff and his family, and from reading perhaps more between the lines than I should, I am not convinced that he knew the risks or was capable of making clear, reasoned decisions, not just during the time he was disoriented/lost, but even before the trip began.
    Thanks for bringing the topic back to Mr Eddie Noonkester and his unfortunate demise. I guess with so little information coming from the authorities this thread inevitably had to drift to smartphones and GPS/AGPS systems and 911 dispatchers and the GELS system and cellphone towers and Guthook and PLB's and low earth orbit satellites and Google maps and Iphone compass apps and all the rest. So many peripheral words but so little actual facts on the incident.

  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tipi Walter View Post
    Thanks for bringing the topic back to Mr Eddie Noonkester and his unfortunate demise. I guess with so little information coming from the authorities this thread inevitably had to drift to smartphones and GPS/AGPS systems and 911 dispatchers and the GELS system and cellphone towers and Guthook and PLB's and low earth orbit satellites and Google maps and Iphone compass apps and all the rest. So many peripheral words but so little actual facts on the incident.
    Back when I paddled lots of whitewater (including your neck of the woods, actually) American Whitewater would publish pretty detailed reports of incidents where paddlers were injured or killed, with an emphasis on lessons learned. And I suppose they still do. I haven't seen anything similar in the backpacking world, although it may exist and I just don't know about it. Publications like Backpacker will of course have articles on some events, but they're written for entertainment and seldom seem to give factual blow-by-blow accounts of what happened and talked about how it could be avoided by others.

    I don't have a solution, just thinking out loud. Does anyone know of something that exists that serves this function?

  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleolith54 View Post
    Back when I paddled lots of whitewater (including your neck of the woods, actually) American Whitewater would publish pretty detailed reports of incidents where paddlers were injured or killed, with an emphasis on lessons learned. And I suppose they still do. I haven't seen anything similar in the backpacking world, although it may exist and I just don't know about it. Publications like Backpacker will of course have articles on some events, but they're written for entertainment and seldom seem to give factual blow-by-blow accounts of what happened and talked about how it could be avoided by others.

    I don't have a solution, just thinking out loud. Does anyone know of something that exists that serves this function?


    Never seen it for the hiking/backpacking crowd but have seen it for the climbers and mountaineers....

    although now now that I think about it—- does the AMC have some in their publication?

    i have a subscription to their magazine but haven’t read one in years...

    ill have have to look when I get home....

  14. #134

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleolith54 View Post
    Back when I paddled lots of whitewater (including your neck of the woods, actually) American Whitewater would publish pretty detailed reports of incidents where paddlers were injured or killed, with an emphasis on lessons learned. And I suppose they still do. I haven't seen anything similar in the backpacking world, although it may exist and I just don't know about it. Publications like Backpacker will of course have articles on some events, but they're written for entertainment and seldom seem to give factual blow-by-blow accounts of what happened and talked about how it could be avoided by others.

    I don't have a solution, just thinking out loud. Does anyone know of something that exists that serves this function?
    Check out these links---

    https://marydonahue.org/fatal-near-f...mountaineering

    https://yosemitenews.info/forum/read...,6123#msg-6123

  15. #135
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    Yeah——just checked the AMC publication “Appalachia” and they have reports of hiking and climbing incidents.....

    and, in theory, one could file a freedom of information act paperwork and request incident reports from various government agencies that have helped in a search or rescue.....

  16. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by TNhiker View Post
    Yeah——just checked the AMC publication “Appalachia” and they have reports of hiking and climbing incidents.....

    and, in theory, one could file a freedom of information act paperwork and request incident reports from various government agencies that have helped in a search or rescue.....

    that is how the ugly truths came out on inchworm - they were able to delay for 3 yrs till few were paying attention

  17. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by John B View Post
    With all due respect to you and to the deceased and his family, and from what tiny bits of info that are public from the sheriff and his family, and from reading perhaps more between the lines than I should, I am not convinced that he knew the risks or was capable of making clear, reasoned decisions, not just during the time he was disoriented/lost, but even before the trip began.
    which was also a contributing factor in the death of inchworm

  18. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by George View Post
    that is how the ugly truths came out on inchworm - they were able to delay for 3 yrs till few were paying attention
    Who are "they" and why did they delay?

  19. #139

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    Quote Originally Posted by John B View Post
    With all due respect to you and to the deceased and his family, and from what tiny bits of info that are public from the sheriff and his family, and from reading perhaps more between the lines than I should, I am not convinced that he knew the risks or was capable of making clear, reasoned decisions, not just during the time he was disoriented/lost, but even before the trip began.
    Reading between the lines says it all. There is simply not enough information to make any judgements. Let him RIP.

  20. #140

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    Quote Originally Posted by TNhiker View Post
    Never seen it for the hiking/backpacking crowd but have seen it for the climbers and mountaineers....

    although now now that I think about it—- does the AMC have some in their publication?

    i have a subscription to their magazine but haven’t read one in years...

    ill have have to look when I get home....
    AMC does analysis of accidents and rescues in Whites in their quarterly Appalachia Journal https://www.outdoors.org/trip-ideas-...ces/appalachia. (Note this is not the same as the AMC Outdoors magazine they send out to members). I do not subscribe but have seen various reports they have done over the years and they are done objectively and triy to come to conclusions on the most likely scenario. The NH F&G department that directs all rescues in the state have debriefing sessions with the participants in the rescues after the rescue is over. They discuss what went right and what went wrong and try to add "lessons learned" as appropriate to future training scenarios. These are generally not public record.

    Frequently families want closure but they also want privacy to mourn their loved ones. The major approach to a family finding closure is for the professionals to reassure them that everything was done to find their loved one and to return the remains with as much dignity as possible. There was case in the whites 20 years ago where a child got lost in hypothermic conditions and was found deceased after an extensive search. The family was unable to get closure and for years would pop up trying to force the case to be reopened as they could not accept that it was not foul play despite no evidence to the contrary.

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