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  1. #181

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    Ethics of thruhiking during Covid-19 is the topic. It really needs to be related to thruhiking. If its just hiking related and concerns Covid-19, there's a thread open for that. Not hiking related predominately, posts will he removed and the poster may get removed from the thread. I will assume that anyone calling the virus anything other than the virus, coronavirus, novel coronavirus, or Covid-19 is looking to troll and will be treated accordingly.

    Thank you for your cooperation.
    "Sleepy alligator in the noonday sun
    Sleepin by the river just like he usually done
    Call for his whisky
    He can call for his tea
    Call all he wanta but he can't call me..."
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  2. #182

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    And if you really want to go with SARS-CoV-2 virus be my guest.
    "Sleepy alligator in the noonday sun
    Sleepin by the river just like he usually done
    Call for his whisky
    He can call for his tea
    Call all he wanta but he can't call me..."
    Robert Hunter & Ron McKernan

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  3. #183
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    Default Criteria for restarting your thru hike?

    Some may think this is early to discuss with so many suffering around the country, but I would hope we can still discuss what reopening the AT would look like even if it is a couple months before that happen. And I would hope the ATC is considering what it takes for them to issue an all clear. Or perhaps they won't even do that this year. It would be interesting to know their criteria. I hope they comment and send us all an email on their criteria like they did when the urged us to leave the trail.

    If the ATC does not come out with a plan, then what is you criteria?

    I think a lot of areas are probably still locked down until June or possibly longer. For me if local and state governments start easing restrictions and the federal governments open national parks/forests, then it would be time to restart the hike. They all don't need to open at the same time, I would stick to open areas. This would probably become a flip flop hike.

    How the hike might look. I would still socially distance from other hikers avoiding shelters where legal. I was hiking with a group so I am thinking we take a couple cars and hike car to car where we could hold about 2 months supplies so we do no need to go to towns, other than to do laundry.

    Anyone thinking about what would get you back on the trail?

  4. #184

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    Quote Originally Posted by SkeeterPee View Post
    Some may think this is early to discuss with so many suffering around the country, but I would hope we can still discuss what reopening the AT would look like even if it is a couple months before that happen. And I would hope the ATC is considering what it takes for them to issue an all clear. Or perhaps they won't even do that this year. It would be interesting to know their criteria. I hope they comment and send us all an email on their criteria like they did when the urged us to leave the trail.

    If the ATC does not come out with a plan, then what is you criteria?

    I think a lot of areas are probably still locked down until June or possibly longer. For me if local and state governments start easing restrictions and the federal governments open national parks/forests, then it would be time to restart the hike. They all don't need to open at the same time, I would stick to open areas. This would probably become a flip flop hike.

    How the hike might look. I would still socially distance from other hikers avoiding shelters where legal. I was hiking with a group so I am thinking we take a couple cars and hike car to car where we could hold about 2 months supplies so we do no need to go to towns, other than to do laundry.

    Anyone thinking about what would get you back on the trail?
    I moved your thread here, falls under this topic.
    "Sleepy alligator in the noonday sun
    Sleepin by the river just like he usually done
    Call for his whisky
    He can call for his tea
    Call all he wanta but he can't call me..."
    Robert Hunter & Ron McKernan

    Whiteblaze.net User Agreement.

  5. #185

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    Sorry this wasn't supposed to be closed. I may have brushed the close box while moving the post above here. Carry-on.
    "Sleepy alligator in the noonday sun
    Sleepin by the river just like he usually done
    Call for his whisky
    He can call for his tea
    Call all he wanta but he can't call me..."
    Robert Hunter & Ron McKernan

    Whiteblaze.net User Agreement.

  6. #186

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alligator View Post
    Sorry this wasn't supposed to be closed. I may have brushed the close box while moving the post above here. Carry-on.
    And here I thought you were mad at me again

    Well, it's looking more and more like even a June SOBO thru hike will be iffy. We might be past the peak by then, but the virus will still be circulating and rural areas which so far have avoided an outbreak (like where I live), once the tourists start to show up in large numbers, that could change quickly.
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  7. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkeeterPee View Post
    ... How the hike might look. I would still socially distance from other hikers avoiding shelters where legal. I was hiking with a group so I am thinking we take a couple cars and hike car to car where we could hold about 2 months supplies so we do no need to go to towns, other than to do laundry.
    Anyone thinking about what would get you back on the trail?
    Listening to ESPN radio this morning and then reading this, both resonated with something that I've been thinking about the past week; in short, when will I feel safe enough to return to interacting with people as we did pre-COVID? If, for example, restaurants and bars were allowed to reopen in the next 8-10 weeks, would I go and dine-in? I don't think that I would. I'm almost 60, and while I don't have any health problems and am in good shape, still I don't want to take the chance of contracting COVID. It's going to take a long time before I feel comfortable being around people again.

    This morning on ESPN radio, Mike Golic, Jr. mentioned a poll done by Seton Hall University School of Business in which +70% of respondents said they would not return to sports stadiums or arenas until after a vaccine was developed. ( https://www.11alive.com/article/spor...9-e747282eae45 ) I wouldn't go to such places, either, or crowded theaters, concerts, etc. Maybe I'll change my mind later this summer or fall, but for now I'm sure that I wouldn't do it.

    I wouldn't feel comfortable staying at hostels, many as we all know having very tight quarters, or being in restaurants or sharing a shuttle or in a shelter, all of which are components thu hiking or long-distance hiking. Like the poll respondents, I will wait until after a vaccine or until the COVID spread has all but disappeared. I'm less worried about passing people in the trail -- two weeks ago, I did a day hike and heard or saw people coming far enough in advance for me to get off the trail 30-40 feet. I didn't mind doing so. But given all of that, my hikes this summer and fall will almost certainly be confined to 4-7 day hikes where I don't need resupply, hostels, etc.

    I will be curious to see the thru-hike numbers in 2021. I would suspect that those who have lots of experience with distance hiking may hold back and wait longer than those with little to no experience.

  8. #188
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    I will be curious to see the thru-hike numbers in 2021. I would suspect that those who have lots of experience with distance hiking may hold back and wait longer than those with little to no experience.


    just outta curiosity, what's your reasoning for this?

  9. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by TNhiker View Post
    just outta curiosity, what's your reasoning for this?
    I think that those with more experience in distance hiking understand just how close hikers are in shared spaces (hostels, shelters, etc), and thus may be reluctant to do so until COVID-19 has stopped spreading and infecting so many people or until a vaccine is developed. I think that novice hikers doing their first distance hike or attempting a thru believe that it's a very solitary endeavor -- I don't think they understand just how jammed up shelters and hostels are -- and thus may start out thinking that at least they will be relatively safe from COVID-19.

    But it's quite possible that those with experience will adjust accordingly and use their trail knowledge to stay out of hostels/shelters and may resupply in towns less frequently.

    But that's just my sense of it. I've no data at all on which to base it, just intuition.

  10. #190

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    Quote Originally Posted by SkeeterPee View Post
    Some may think this is early to discuss with so many suffering around the country, but I would hope we can still discuss what reopening the AT would look like even if it is a couple months before that happen. And I would hope the ATC is considering what it takes for them to issue an all clear. Or perhaps they won't even do that this year. It would be interesting to know their criteria. I hope they comment and send us all an email on their criteria like they did when the urged us to leave the trail.

    If the ATC does not come out with a plan, then what is you criteria?............
    I have been wondering this same thing the last couple of weeks. What do you use to judge the degree of danger to yourself and others by being on the trail?

    Quote Originally Posted by John B View Post
    I'm almost 60, and while I don't have any health problems and am in good shape, still I don't want to take the chance of contracting COVID. It's going to take a long time before I feel comfortable being around people again..............
    I feel the same way and I wonder how wide spread that kind of feeling is because it will directly affect how long it takes folks to feel safe enough to be on the trail.
    If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything.

  11. #191
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    I would be fine staying at a motel but not a hostel until this is more clearly over. This is why I suggested we would have 2 vehicles with all our food and avoid towns and hostels. it certainly would not be the same as our first 5 weeks this winter.

    We really can't wait on a vaccine. While it is possible to create one in 12-18 months, it is not likely. Mumps took 4 years, Ebola 5 years, typical vaccines have taken 10-20 years. 12-18 months is best case scenario.

  12. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasBob View Post
    I have been wondering this same thing the last couple of weeks. What do you use to judge the degree of danger to yourself and others by being on the trail?



    I feel the same way and I wonder how wide spread that kind of feeling is because it will directly affect how long it takes folks to feel safe enough to be on the trail.
    Two good questions. You are not in danger if you are not within 6 feet of anyone. That is pretty easy to do if you avoid shelters and hostels. I'm past the smokies so I don't plan to stay in any shelters. I am at equal risk to staying at home and hiking in a local park. If we do the 2 cars to hold food I could avoid towns for 2 months.

  13. #193

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    Quote Originally Posted by SkeeterPee View Post
    Two good questions. You are not in danger if you are not within 6 feet of anyone. That is pretty easy to do if you avoid shelters and hostels. I'm past the smokies so I don't plan to stay in any shelters. I am at equal risk to staying at home and hiking in a local park. If we do the 2 cars to hold food I could avoid towns for 2 months.
    Two months of food in your car parked at trailheads? That's pretty good bait for bears. Just saying...

    If you want to avoid towns entirely, you'll also have to figure out how to take showers and do laundry at the trailheads. Hope there is a stream nearby to pump water out of.
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  14. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slo-go'en View Post
    Two months of food in your car parked at trailheads? That's pretty good bait for bears. Just saying...

    If you want to avoid towns entirely, you'll also have to figure out how to take showers and do laundry at the trailheads. Hope there is a stream nearby to pump water out of.
    I remember TV reports of bears breaking into cars for food in the 70's, but does that still happen now with modern locks? I have not seen those report in 40 years. We certainly do some washing at the car. But every week or two I would feel safe staying in motel. You can socially distant at motel.

  15. #195

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    Quote Originally Posted by SkeeterPee View Post
    I remember TV reports of bears breaking into cars for food in the 70's, but does that still happen now with modern locks? I have not seen those report in 40 years. We certainly do some washing at the car. But every week or two I would feel safe staying in motel. You can socially distant at motel.
    I saw a film on TV once about bears breaking into cars in Yosemite. The bears would get would get their long claws under the rubber stripping around a back window, and pop the window out like it was nothing.

  16. #196
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    I remember TV reports of bears breaking into cars for food in the 70's, but does that still happen now with modern locks?


    it happened a least once or twice in the area surrounding GSMNP a few years ago....

    And in the same fashion as post 195 says...
    Last edited by TNhiker; 04-10-2020 at 16:42.

  17. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by TNhiker View Post
    it happened a least once or twice in the area surrounding GSMNP a few years ago....

    Any in the same fashion as post 195 says...
    The GSMN front country campgrounds say to lock your food in you vehicle, preferably in your trunk. I recall the same at SNP. Given the millions who visit the AT trailheads each year, I suspect many have some food. I wonder how often this happens. Also would a bear smell hiker food that is still in its packaging. Leaving trash might be more of scent.

  18. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkeeterPee View Post
    The GSMN front country campgrounds say to lock your food in you vehicle, preferably in your trunk. I recall the same at SNP. Given the millions who visit the AT trailheads each year, I suspect many have some food. I wonder how often this happens. Also would a bear smell hiker food that is still in its packaging. Leaving trash might be more of scent.


    yeah...

    and i think (like big creek) that some of the front county campgrounds have metal boxes for storage.....or at least they used to...

    but, if one google bear breaking into car in GSMNP, theres a few videos...

    some, of course, are from the gatlinburg area where there is more tourists and more trash....

    im just saying, it does happen every now and then....

  19. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkeeterPee View Post
    I remember TV reports of bears breaking into cars for food in the 70's, but does that still happen now with modern locks? I have not seen those report in 40 years. We certainly do some washing at the car. But every week or two I would feel safe staying in motel. You can socially distant at motel.
    It's not just bears. We left fresh clothes and food resupply in a rental car at a road crossing in Maine 2-3 years ago. When we arrived at the car just 4-5 days later, MICE had gotten into the trunk, chewed into the packaging, ruined some of the food, and pooped everywhere. They also got into the cabin of the car, pooping on the dash, seats, etc. Lovely little mess we had to clean up before returning the car. Fortunately we had enough food that we were able to continue our journey.

    My suggestion, if you choose to leave food in your car, put it in bug-proof, mouse-proof containers. And then pray the bears don't know how to open the car. Depending on where you're going, you may not be in areas where bears are habituated to human food. Best of luck to you.

  20. #200

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    Even without food in my car, I have to put mouse traps in it in the fall, as the mice decide it's a nice place to live as the weather gets cold. It's also a good idea to look for nests in the engine air filter occasionally. Another problem is many late model cars use a soy based insulation on the electrical wiring (more environmentally friendly), but mice love to chew on it. If you leave your car parked at a trailhead for any length of time, you could come back to find the electrical system destroyed. Vermont used to have a big problem with porcupines chewing brake lines and tires.
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