"The Ethics of Thru-Hiking During the COVID-19 Pandemic"

[Slo-go'en]

Well, actually not. It is pretty rare that any sort of a rescue is needed off of most trails. I don't disagree with the rest of what you say, just this point, which is a real stretch IMO.

I don't know. It seems to happen frequently in Georgia at the start of the season with inexperienced newbies and it's almost a weekly occurrence here in the Whites during the busy summer season. Although ATV crashes are becoming more common. 3-4 of those every weekend like clock work.

[colorado_rob]

I don't know. It seems to happen frequently in Georgia at the start of the season with inexperienced newbies and it's almost a weekly occurrence here in the Whites during the busy summer season. Although ATV crashes are becoming more common. 3-4 of those every weekend like clock work.

I should modify my remark to only include "somewhat" experienced hikers. What I mean by this is that if you ignore the complete-rookie-weekend-warriors, those that basically don't know what they are doing and have no gear to handle any sort of trail difficulty, I bet excluding those folks the number of required rescues is very small and rare on established trails.

[SkeeterPee]

Yes we do. https://www.biospace.com/article/fda...antibody-test/

Thanks, missed that.

[Zea]

I don't want this to sound augmentative, but are you planning to go anywhere when the country reopens? Or will you stay home for how ever many years this takes to resolve? it may be several years. If you go out for any number of reasons bad things could occur where you will you will expose others to possible threats. That is far more likely than a hiker getting injured and putting people at risk. Your fears are not based on reasonable risks.

I think right now the only thing we all can do on an individual level is minimize the risk and damage. A hike on rugged terrain, that does not lend itself to an easy rescue should one thing go wrong, is certainly an unnecessary risk at this point in time.

It's not about me or any one person. The real risk often doesn't lie in just one person making one risky choice (although it can), but in many people inevitably following and making the same risky choice. Eventually the odds catch up and worst case scenarios become reality.

Right now the ethical choice seems pretty obvious, stay home!

I can't predict the future, but we're only a couple months into a deadly viral pandemic, once things settle and our experience and knowledge of the situation grows, I'm optimistic that making the "right" choices will become a little more clear cut. Right now though I honestly don't think anyone knows how all of this will play out.

I still plan on hiking, but it'll be on mellow local spots and likely while everyone else is still sleeping. The mountains will still be there when this is over. Hopefully sooner rather than later

[4eyedbuzzard]

...Right now the ethical choice seems pretty obvious, stay home!

Ethics is rarely as obvious as it initially seems, nor are the choices. If it were, we wouldn't invest so much time and energy on the subject.

The mountains will still be there when this is over. Hopefully sooner rather than later

Much easier for someone 28 years old to say than someone 68. How long should people wait patiently? A couple months, a couple years, an eternity? Just food for thought.

[Zea]

You make some good points about using resources in rural areas if you get injured. My point was that if you are likely immune to the virus you would not be spreading it or getting ill from it on the trail. I agree with you that now isn't the time to be on the AT and the best thing to do is stay home for everybody's health.

Sorry if I came off harsh at all, I definitely have some pent up stress lately

Hopefully an antibody test becomes widely available so people can determine if they're immune or not, I feel like that would really help to kickstart the recovery of the trail (along with pretty much everything else).

Even so though, depending on the terrain hiking is a risky activity and rescues typically don't mesh well with social distancing and even proper PPE. Will first responders and rescue crews/volunteers in the future need to test positive for antibodies to work in the field?

Ethics textbooks of the future will be able to draw plenty of sample examples from this pandemic, there's a whole lot of grey area all around.

[Zea]

Ethics is rarely obvious, nor are the choices.

Much easier for someone 28 years old to say than someone 68. How long should people wait patiently? A couple months, a couple years, an eternity? Just food for thought.

"Stay home" was a bad word choice on my part, stay local would be more appropriate.

As someone who works in healthcare, I'm well aware that ethical dilemmas are often not black and white, but I certainly wouldn't say that the ethical choice is "rarely obvious".

Admittedly knowledge and experience can help make navigating difficult ethical decisions a whole lot more manageable, and quarantines due to viral pandemics are new to all of us, so ethics in many areas will likely be tricky for the foreseeable future.

No one knows the exact right course of action, but it does seem like all the information points towards social distancing and risk mitigation being the best things to do in order to save lives, for right now at least.

As far as age is concerned, I'd like to think that when I'm 68 I'll still put the lives and health of others before my desire to go hiking.

[SkeeterPee]

"Stay home" was a bad word choice on my part, stay local would be more appropriate.

As someone who works in healthcare, I'm well aware that ethical dilemmas are often not black and white, but I certainly wouldn't say that the ethical choice is "rarely obvious".

Admittedly knowledge and experience can help make navigating difficult ethical decisions a whole lot more manageable, and quarantines due to viral pandemics are new to all of us, so ethics in many areas will likely be tricky for the foreseeable future.

No one knows the exact right course of action, but it does seem like all the information points towards social distancing and risk mitigation being the best things to do in order to save lives, for right now at least.

As far as age is concerned, I'd like to think that when I'm 68 I'll still put the lives and health of others before my desire to go hiking.

The problem is you are way over estimating the risks of hiking and saying it is obvious that it should not be allowed in a couple months when the country reopens. I tried to show you the hypocrisy of this but you would not answer. I am sure there are many things you are doing equally non-essential. Are you going to buy anything at the grocery or on Amazon that is non-essential? Are you going to drive anywhere that is not essential? Are you continuing your local hikes? All of these non-essential activities put more people at risk so according to you they are unethical. Are you going to stop non-essential activities? If not perhaps you need to stop saying other people's activities are unethical.

[Traffic Jam]

What I find most distressful about this situation is the social implication and how people are turning on each other, snitching on their neighbors, condemning each other on social media, friends treating friends with censure and disapproval, backlash and righteous indignation when people don’t agree.

Let’s all try to be a little more respectful of each other.

[TexasBob]

Thanks, missed that.

So much information out there that it is hard to keep up. I spend too much time reading about this stuff because I am stuck at home and I don't have enough to do.

Sorry if I came off harsh at all, I definitely have some pent up stress lately.......

I didn't take it that way so no need to apologize.

[Traffic Jam]

I see two possible scenarios. One, those who continue to hike get blamed for spreading the virus in our rural hiking communities, making things more difficult for future hikers. Or two, communities become more welcoming to future hikers because they realize how much they rely on them financially.

[colorado_rob]

What I find most distressful about this situation is the social implication and how people are turning on each other, snitching on their neighbors, condemning each other on social media, friends treating friends with censure and disapproval, backlash and righteous indignation when people don’t agree.

Let’s all try to be a little more respectful of each other.

Maybe it's regional, but my wife and are are seeing the opposite in our neck-O-the woods, folks seem to be friendlier than before, block "parties" all over the place (I'll take a pic of the next one we see...), lots of virtual parties, etc. Every night at 8pm, folks step on to their porches and HOWL like crazy (a tribute to health care workers), it kinda fun. Even here on WB and other social media forums I seem to notice a bit of calming. Everyone seems to realize that we're all in this together, it might be a bit of a uniting event, despite the tragic loss of life and financial consequences for so many.

Just my impression. Yeah, I'm bored as hell, running out of things to do around the house.

[Traffic Jam]

Maybe it's regional, but my wife and are are seeing the opposite in our neck-O-the woods, folks seem to be friendlier than before, block "parties" all over the place (I'll take a pic of the next one we see...), lots of virtual parties, etc. Every night at 8pm, folks step on to their porches and HOWL like crazy (a tribute to health care workers), it kinda fun. Even here on WB and other social media forums I seem to notice a bit of calming. Everyone seems to realize that we're all in this together, it might be a bit of a uniting event, despite the tragic loss of life and financial consequences for so many.

Just my impression. Yeah, I'm bored as hell, running out of things to do around the house.

Thank you for your support of healthcare workers! I agree with you about it being regional, with the exception of social media. Yet, I’m also in the South and have not seen any neighborhood unification (maybe that’s just my neighborhood), and it’s very tense and quiet in the grocery store.

I'm not bored, I have too many hobbies and have been really busy. But I do get down and have to work to not get depressed and frustrated.

[Zea]

The problem is you are way over estimating the risks of hiking and saying it is obvious that it should not be allowed in a couple months when the country reopens. I tried to show you the hypocrisy of this but you would not answer. I am sure there are many things you are doing equally non-essential. Are you going to buy anything at the grocery or on Amazon that is non-essential? Are you going to drive anywhere that is not essential? Are you continuing your local hikes? All of these non-essential activities put more people at risk so according to you they are unethical. Are you going to stop non-essential activities? If not perhaps you need to stop saying other people's activities are unethical.

I don't think I said anything about hiking not being allowed in a couple months. When the parks and the AT re-open (whenever that may be) things will likely be different than they are now. Some possibilities are: when things open will there be more widespread testing, will the curve be flattened and healthcare systems less at risk of being overwhelmed, will there be an antibody test, will there be new treatment protocols or drug regimens that are increasing COVID-19 outcomes, will people who have assumed antibodies/immunity after having the virus play larger first responder and essential worker roles?

There are tons of variables, and no one knows exactly how things will be next week let alone in a month or more. I think what's important is making the right decisions right now, a lot of factors in this equation can and will change.

On an individual level, going out for a hike you're not all that likely to get injured or have a medical emergency, though depending on the terrain it is certainly not a negligible risk. It's not about one person though, if the option exists there will be thousands making that same choice, which makes worst-case scenarios far more likely to occur. Cities are packed with people staying home bored out of their mind, lots of people with no hiking experience tempted to get out on the trail. The first week that MA shut things down, many NH trail heads looked like a mid-summer long weekend parking situation, only in March when snow, ice, and monorail are the norm once you get on the trail and risk of injury is far higher.

As far as my "hypocrisy", I'm in a situation where I'm forced to avoid the majority of extra risk right now regardless, as I live with others who are medically vulnerable. You do have a point that my local walks/hikes aren't without risk, but a flat path around a local pond or a fire road hike up a local hill are logistically in a far separate risk category than most non-local AT hikes. I don't hike anywhere that, in a worst-case scenario, my wife and another family member couldn't easily come get me out. Working in physical rehab, I'd argue that light physical activity may actually reduce the chance of injuries and increase overall health. The questions to me come down to how, when, and where.

[Leo L.]

We are seeing this new, highly respectful and friendly behavior here as well. Even the most notorious dog owners keep their beast on a leash nowadays, which for me is the best sign that attitude has changed to the better.

BTW, social distancing and stay-at-home really works.
Our most recent numbers dropped down to a mere 1.3% increase in infections per day, now in the 4th week of lockdown.

[SkeeterPee]

All of my posts / discussion has been about the restarting a self supported hike after the governors have reopened business and the trail closures have been removed by the federal/state parks. I am thinking this may happen by June. So you are responding to me, but not discussing the scenario i proposed if you are talking about today.

[Leo L.]

Not a straight comment to you, but meant in general for anybody who is doubting the lockdown and stay-in-place policy.

Also please be aware that Corona will not simply go away. It will be part of our lives until (a) a majority will be immune post-infection, or (b) there will be good meds against it or (c) a vaccine will be found.
None of those will take place anytime soon, so hiking recommended by June I'd highly doubt.

[TNhiker]

I am thinking this may happen by June

that's very doubtful.....


my thinking is september or october....

[swjohnsey]

Social distancing will do nothing but slow the spread. Everyone but the crew of the space station and the guy sailing alone in the Pacific will be exposed.

[Five Tango]

that's very doubtful.....



my thinking is september or october....

My thinking is sometime in 2022 or 23 at the earliest.Get ready for an expensive "cure" and proof of innocculation.

Embrace the "new normal".The possibility exists that it will never go away too,we still can't cure the common cold
either.