Page 15 of 17 FirstFirst ... 5 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 LastLast
Results 281 to 300 of 325
  1. #281
    Registered User Christoph's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-18-2015
    Location
    Valdosta, Georgia
    Age
    48
    Posts
    596

    Default

    Maybe they should open up the entire trail so people can disperse a bit. If you have only certain sections open, they're going to be flooded with people as that's the only places they can go (people aren't going to stay home, let's face reality. Some of you aren't either (including me)). Didn't we learn anything when this exact thing happened a few months ago upon closing areas and not others? Keep the shelters and surround areas limited to x number of people and there are plenty of other camp spots they will use. Hikers will distance themselves, they're/we're not stupid and don't need ATC or government control to hike in the woods. But this isn't really the issue is it? It's people coming from all over trying to get to places like McAfee knob and spots like that. I'd suggest maybe limit parking spaces in the lots and fine those parking on the side of the road illegally (which they shouldn't be parking there anyway). Just my soapbox thinking.

    Not directed at anyone, just ranting.
    Last edited by Christoph; 05-05-2020 at 13:38.
    - Trail name: Thumper

  2. #282
    Registered User soilman's Avatar
    Join Date
    01-29-2010
    Location
    Chillicothe, OH
    Age
    66
    Posts
    559

    Default

    Times like these bring out the best and the worst in people. We are all in this together, but some people are going to do what they want to do. Just my opinion but I feel that the hike I cancelled is a small sacrifice compared to the sacrifices of those on the front lines. I am saddened to hear the stories of first responders who have succumbed to COVID-19 while people are packing the beaches and trail heads.
    More walking, less talking.

  3. #283
    Registered User colorado_rob's Avatar
    Join Date
    08-20-2012
    Location
    Denver, CO
    Age
    64
    Posts
    4,385
    Images
    3

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by soilman View Post
    I am saddened to hear the stories of first responders who have succumbed to COVID-19 while people are packing the beaches and trail heads.
    Just curious as to what stories you're referring to?

  4. #284

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by colorado_rob View Post
    Just curious as to what stories you're referring to?
    I'll respond...
    there's too many to count. Do a simple google search.
    I just read of one of your own Colorado statesmen coming out of retirement to go volunteer in NYC...he died of COVID 19.

    His name was Paul Carry. served Denver suburbs for over 30 years.

    https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/loca...n-nyc/2400386/

  5. #285
    Registered User colorado_rob's Avatar
    Join Date
    08-20-2012
    Location
    Denver, CO
    Age
    64
    Posts
    4,385
    Images
    3

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by trailmercury View Post
    I'll respond...
    there's too many to count. Do a simple google search.
    I just read of one of your own Colorado statesmen coming out of retirement to go volunteer in NYC...he died of COVID 19.

    His name was Paul Carry. served Denver suburbs for over 30 years.

    https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/loca...n-nyc/2400386/
    sorry, my bad, I'm not talking about those fine folks, though now I suspect Soilman was...

    I read "SAR" into "first responder".

    since this is a hiking forum, what I'm asking: have there been any serious or fatal Covid cases from SAR folks who have caught the bug from rescuing a hiker? I realize there might be some that cannot be confirmed, but I'm wondering if there are at least highly suspected cases?

    What I'm after is the relative risk to others when hiking, vs. other every day activities, either essential or non-essential, now that we have ventured into more non-essential activities around the world. I suspect hiking related Covid dangers are not zero, but extremely low, maybe reading about some actual hiking-related Covid cases would shed some light.
    Last edited by colorado_rob; 05-05-2020 at 13:30.

  6. #286

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by colorado_rob View Post
    sorry, my bad, I'm not talking about those fine folks, though now I suspect Soilman was...

    I read "SAR" into "first responder".

    since this is a hiking forum, what I'm asking: have there been any serious or fatal Covid cases from SAR folks who have caught the bug from rescuing a hiker? I realize there might be some that cannot be confirmed, but I'm wondering if there are at least highly suspected cases?

    What I'm after is the relative risk to others when hiking, vs. other every day activities, either essential or non-essential, now that we have ventured into more non-essential activities around the world. I suspect hiking related Covid dangers are not zero, but extremely low, maybe reading about some actual hiking-related Covid cases would shed some light.
    Here's an older article about SAR in NH (4/15/2020).
    White Mountain NF closures (4/26/2020)
    Mountain Rescue Service website
    "Sleepy alligator in the noonday sun
    Sleepin by the river just like he usually done
    Call for his whisky
    He can call for his tea
    Call all he wanta but he can't call me..."
    Robert Hunter & Ron McKernan

    Whiteblaze.net User Agreement.

  7. #287
    Registered User Christoph's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-18-2015
    Location
    Valdosta, Georgia
    Age
    48
    Posts
    596

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by colorado_rob View Post
    sorry, my bad, I'm not talking about those fine folks, though now I suspect Soilman was...I read "SAR" into "first responder". since this is a hiking forum, what I'm asking: have there been any serious or fatal Covid cases from SAR folks who have caught the bug from rescuing a hiker? I realize there might be some that cannot be confirmed, but I'm wondering if there are at least highly suspected cases?

    What I'm after is the relative risk to others when hiking, vs. other every day activities, either essential or non-essential, now that we have ventured into more non-essential activities around the world. I suspect hiking related Covid dangers are not zero, but extremely low, maybe reading about some actual hiking-related Covid cases would shed some light.
    Well said. Lots of questions, everyone has an opinion. Truth is, NOBODY knows what will come of this so IMO just take general precautions and live our lives. No, there is no known "cure" and there may never be an "actual" cure, as in a 'flu shot" that fixes everything. Is the Flu shot a "cure"? Nope. What do you think they'll pump into us when they find the vaccine? We (the common folk) will never know. Being retired military, I should have asked what they were giving me, but I didn't. But I'm still alive, in fairly good shape (for a 48 year old), and I go about my life. "Ethics of hiking the trail"... I honestly think if we open up the entire trail, people won't converge on the popular spots (some will, it's inevitable, people need to be people), cases will rise a bit (again, but look at the factors the come into play), but some of those people (like me) will disperse a little bit not forcing the social distancing to one spot or area on the trail. So my rant and thoughts brings me to this.... Is the AT the only one effected? Why haven't other popular tails in national forests being condemned like the AT? You can hike those without worry, what makes the AT so different? If it only takes one person... And don't get me started on the ATC's handling of this "situation". ... Rant off.
    - Trail name: Thumper

  8. #288

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Christoph View Post
    Well said. Lots of questions, everyone has an opinion. Truth is, NOBODY knows what will come of this so IMO just take general precautions and live our lives. No, there is no known "cure" and there may never be an "actual" cure, as in a 'flu shot" that fixes everything. Is the Flu shot a "cure"? Nope. What do you think they'll pump into us when they find the vaccine? We (the common folk) will never know. Being retired military, I should have asked what they were giving me, but I didn't. But I'm still alive, in fairly good shape (for a 48 year old), and I go about my life. "Ethics of hiking the trail"... I honestly think if we open up the entire trail, people won't converge on the popular spots (some will, it's inevitable, people need to be people), cases will rise a bit (again, but look at the factors the come into play), but some of those people (like me) will disperse a little bit not forcing the social distancing to one spot or area on the trail. So my rant and thoughts brings me to this.... Is the AT the only one effected? Why haven't other popular tails in national forests being condemned like the AT? You can hike those without worry, what makes the AT so different? If it only takes one person... And don't get e started on the ATC's handling of this "situation". ... Rant off.
    A few things might be the AT being the most prominent longstanding popular long distance trail. Also ATC headquarters just outside Washington, DC, and it runs through NY and NJ, and also a heavy Boston influence with the AMC. Just some potential reasons why so much focus on the AT.
    The road to glory cannot be followed with much baggage.
    Richard Ewell, CSA General


  9. #289

    Default

    The virus took off at about the same time as the surge in Thruhikers started. By the end of February, the writing was on the wall. So it made sense to nip that in the bud. Rural GA and NC didn't need to have a sudden influx of sick hikers. With 50+ hikers at every campsite in GA, it could have spread pretty quickly. It only takes one person to start the dominos falling. We dogged a bullet there.
    Follow slogoen on Instagram.

  10. #290

    Default

    Haven't really dodge the bullet. This Covid-19 is just getting rolling. Everyone will eventually be exposed and 15 - 20% will come down with it. About half of those will never know they have it. This will play out to the end of the year. NYC was the vanguard. The virus spread quicker there and started earlier. About 0.2% of the population died WITH Coivid-19 meaning they had serious underlying health issues anyway. All this social distancing will just prolong the agony.

  11. #291
    Registered User soilman's Avatar
    Join Date
    01-29-2010
    Location
    Chillicothe, OH
    Age
    66
    Posts
    559

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Christoph View Post
    So my rant and thoughts brings me to this.... Is the AT the only one effected? Why haven't other popular tails in national forests being condemned like the AT? You can hike those without worry, what makes the AT so different? If it only takes one person... And don't get me started on the ATC's handling of this "situation". ... Rant off.
    It isn't only the AT. Local and regional trails in Colorado, Philly, Atlanta, and Phoenix to name a few have reported overcrowded trails. One report of a popular trail at as state park near Atlanta said hikers were "lined up cheek to jowl" to view a waterfall. Don't get me started how the federal government is handling this "situation."
    More walking, less talking.

  12. #292
    Registered User soilman's Avatar
    Join Date
    01-29-2010
    Location
    Chillicothe, OH
    Age
    66
    Posts
    559

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by trailmercury View Post
    I'll respond...
    there's too many to count. Do a simple google search.
    I just read of one of your own Colorado statesmen coming out of retirement to go volunteer in NYC...he died of COVID 19.

    His name was Paul Carry. served Denver suburbs for over 30 years.

    https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/loca...n-nyc/2400386/
    He was one I was thinking of in addition to the ER doctor in NY and the other NY doctor who committed suicide. Hundreds of healthcare workers worldwide have died. And we are bitching about not being able to go walk in the woods.
    More walking, less talking.

  13. #293

    Default

    I broke out my pocket copy of the constitution and was trying to figure out where the federal government was given power to handle "situations" like this. Stumbled on this, "\
    The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.[5




  14. #294

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by swjohnsey View Post
    I broke out my pocket copy of the constitution and was trying to figure out where the federal government was given power to handle "situations" like this. Stumbled on this, "\
    The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.[5



    This thread isn't the legality of any trail closures. We're not going to debate the federal or state or local government response. The thread topic concerns ethics.
    "Sleepy alligator in the noonday sun
    Sleepin by the river just like he usually done
    Call for his whisky
    He can call for his tea
    Call all he wanta but he can't call me..."
    Robert Hunter & Ron McKernan

    Whiteblaze.net User Agreement.

  15. #295

    Default

    We could save around 40,000 American lives a year by shutting down the highways.

  16. #296

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by swjohnsey View Post
    We could save around 40,000 American lives a year by shutting down the highways.
    We lost 72000 people already and we are only 1/3 of the way through the year. That's only because most of the country was shutdown. Much bigger problem. But again, this thread isn't about stay at home orders and such. If a section of trail is legally shutdown, then by site rules there isn't anything to discuss about hiking on that section.
    4. Discussions involving how to commit illegal acts, or involving the use, production and/or distribution of illegal drugs are forbidden.
    It's about the ethics of thru-hiking during the pandemic.
    Last edited by Alligator; 05-06-2020 at 15:54. Reason: Clarification
    "Sleepy alligator in the noonday sun
    Sleepin by the river just like he usually done
    Call for his whisky
    He can call for his tea
    Call all he wanta but he can't call me..."
    Robert Hunter & Ron McKernan

    Whiteblaze.net User Agreement.

  17. #297

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by swjohnsey View Post
    We could save around 40,000 American lives a year by shutting down the highways.
    The world has drawn the line at “otherwise preventable deaths”. In other words, if people who got the virus would have survived with proper healthcare but start dying at home because that healthcare is not available, then it’s gone too far.

    Not offering my opinion. Just pointing out that is where the ethical line is being drawn.

  18. #298
    Registered User
    Join Date
    01-07-2016
    Location
    Pace, Florida
    Age
    51
    Posts
    133

    Default

    I understand why you bring it back to the ethics of hiking, that makes sense, however the ethics *depend* on how we interpret the what is going on.

    If you believe as I do that your that the virus cannot be contained and that it must run its course then hike on. Social distancing only drags out what can't be stopped.

    There is evidence that the number of people who develop symptoms can be as low at 5%, so if that is true than hike on. This is from studies on jails.

    If the virus death rate is in the range of 0.1 to 0.5 and the vast majority have other conditions then hike on. This is from MD's not CNN.

    If you want to stay at home for months to avoid this, then that is up to you, but you (in general) shouldn't impose your belief (which IMO is rooted in fear) on others who have very good reasons to act otherwise. Misery loves company is an expression that comes to mind.

    Believe me, if this was really as bad as they say then I would certainly stay home. The analogy of swjohnsy of highway deaths is actually a very valid comparison. Every time I drive in Georgia I am reminded of how many die on the highways because they remind everyone on highway message boards. It is effective because it reminds me to be diligent in how I drive, but I certainly don't think I better get home and stay there.

    HYOH really applies here. This isn't really an ethical decision this is a personal decision.

  19. #299

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by steve_zavocki View Post
    If you believe as I do that your that the virus cannot be contained and that it must run its course then hike on. Social distancing only drags out what can't be stopped.
    Sure, HYOH, but stay away from people and places you don't need to be.

    Isn't "dragging it out" half the point of social distancing? To avoid the worst case of medical system inundation

    I believe that people that say "it's not that bad" and carry on with normal life are riding the coat tails of the majority, who have actually put in the effort to limit the effects of this virus. If everyone in NY at the pandemic peak decided to hike their own hike all around the country and travel everywhere without restriction, it would have been pure chaos.
    Predicting future virus cases/deaths isn't the least bit accurate in many cases, but trying to assess how it would have been with zero social distancing is even more wild of a "science"

  20. #300
    Registered User
    Join Date
    01-07-2016
    Location
    Pace, Florida
    Age
    51
    Posts
    133

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hikingjim View Post
    Sure, HYOH, but stay away from people and places you don't need to be.

    Isn't "dragging it out" half the point of social distancing? To avoid the worst case of medical system inundation

    I believe that people that say "it's not that bad" and carry on with normal life are riding the coat tails of the majority, who have actually put in the effort to limit the effects of this virus. If everyone in NY at the pandemic peak decided to hike their own hike all around the country and travel everywhere without restriction, it would have been pure chaos.
    Predicting future virus cases/deaths isn't the least bit accurate in many cases, but trying to assess how it would have been with zero social distancing is even more wild of a "science"
    I disagree that it would be pure chaos, because I think it already happened. There were cases in Paris and Sweden far earlier than first thought. I believe the same for NY. Didn't they do a sampling a month ago and 20% people had antibodies. I think it already spread all over, and only a small percentage had symptoms. For a large area like NYC, the numbers add up and make it look worse.

    The initial wait was to allow the medical system to catch up. They already did that. It was not to STOP the spread, only to slow it. At this point, the cure is worse than the disease. We know much more about treatment now so the wait was a success but continuing with it is insanity. As was said by swjohnsy already, we don't want to prolong the agony. People are being hurt big time by this.

Page 15 of 17 FirstFirst ... 5 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 LastLast
++ New Posts ++

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •