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  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slo-go'en View Post
    You MUST use official designated sites in the Whites (along the AT). To do otherwise is irresponsible and in most places, simply not physically possible or illegal.

    To travel any distance from home to go hiking is also very irresponsible. There is a big push to "re-open" (damn the consequences), but everyone with any sense is going to say "not on my life". The tourist industry is dead for the foreseeable future. The trail will still be here when this finally blows over, hopefully you will be too.
    His trip is 7 weeks out and he has placed the caveat of if the pandemic is still an active concern so we are not talking about right now. We have two other threads for right now and the very immediate future. Leave the judgements on reopening remarks out of it. There are some legal "stealth" sites but no need to argue about must. His suggested pace makes it moot.
    "Sleepy alligator in the noonday sun
    Sleepin by the river just like he usually done
    Call for his whisky
    He can call for his tea
    Call all he wanta but he can't call me..."
    Robert Hunter & Ron McKernan

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  2. #22

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    Well, I just hope he makes the right decision.
    Follow slogoen on Instagram.

  3. #23
    Registered User
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    Our state has closed most trails in the White Mountains and campgrounds. I wouldn’t book anything until the next update on May 4th.

  4. #24
    Registered User JPritch's Avatar
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    02-03-2017
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    Lynchburg, VA
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    Have a good hike Gambit!
    It is what it is.

  5. #25
    Registered User QuietStorm's Avatar
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    I didn't see any reference to the ATC and its recommendations regarding hiking again on the AT. Is the assumption in this plan that the ATC will recommend overnight backpacking by mid-late June? At this point the AT has become the same or similar patchwork of stay at home orders and re-openings as the rest of the country. Georgia, Tennessee, Pennsylvania, Vermont, and Maine are beginning various degrees of re-opening. Will the ATC follow suit? It doesn't appear their petition to close the trail completely was approved; in any case, they asked for the trail to be closed through April 30. I am in Maryland, which is under an indefinite stay at home order with no overnight camping anywhere. I have 188 miles left to complete of the AT and had planned to do so beginning June 28. I postponed the hike to August 30 with a summit day around September 14. Even then Maine may still have a 14-day quarantine for non-residents. I hope not, but it's possible. So even if the pandemic has lessened in severity by June-July, many of the states continue to have restrictions, and the ATC has yet to loosen its recommendations. Tough to plan.

  6. #26

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    I also stayed at Pine Ellis Hostel a couple years ago for a couple nights. Decent hostel, the buffet at the Red Hen was among the most memorable on the entire AT. The shuttler at Pine Ellis was a Mayan Indian named David. Guy was awesome. Great wealth of knowledge and just a super all around guy. Lots of good people around the trail towns, but David really was a standout. Southern ME is the real deal.

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Emerson Bigills View Post
    I also stayed at Pine Ellis Hostel a couple years ago for a couple nights. Decent hostel, the buffet at the Red Hen was among the most memorable on the entire AT. The shuttler at Pine Ellis was a Mayan Indian named David. Guy was awesome. Great wealth of knowledge and just a super all around guy. Lots of good people around the trail towns, but David really was a standout. Southern ME is the real deal.
    I really enjoyed my shuttles with David also. Besides his knowledge of the areas, he told me stories about pitching for his country's Little League team. Even threw a few no hitters back in the day.
    The road to glory cannot be followed with much baggage.
    Richard Ewell, CSA General


  8. #28
    13-45 Section Hiker Trash
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alligator View Post
    Not even a single mention of how you might take into account that there is currently a pandemic? That is NOT going to change in 7 weeks. Did you test positive for antibodies? It's like you are ignoring the elephant in the room. This reads like a thread from last year. It's not 2019.
    Gambit addressed this, but I'm going to have to agree with most on this thread that it appears that most if not all 2020 long distance trips are pretty much out of the question at this point. Just my opinion, but if I had anything overnight planned more than a couple of hours from where I live I'd be cancelling and thinking about doing it next year.



    Quote Originally Posted by Gambit McCrae View Post
    IMO it was common sense that if the pandemic is still an active concern that the trip would not occur.
    No I will not be driving from TN to NH, 4eyedbuzzard had good points in that cost wise it would cut even minus wear and tear.
    Glad you are considering the current situation. As for the driving though, let's assume everything "kind of" blows over (I think we all know this is gonna drag on for quite a while). Why not drive? I drove up there for all my sections and I realize I'm probably several hours closer than you, but this seems like a pretty dang good compromise. Then you are staying away from public transportation and depending on the logistics you could potentially avoid hotels too. The driving would take a little longer, but would definitely be the far safer option (for you and the surrounding communities) to get there considering things aren't going to be 100% back to normal.

    I guess what I'm trying to say is if I were thinking of doing this I would be driving, camping and bringing everything with me that I need to eliminate all unnecessary stops. Ideally I'd stop for gas a few times, maybe hit a few drive thrus for food, and the rest of the time I'd be in my car, at a campsite or hiking.
    AT: 2007-2019 (45 sections)
    JMT: 2013

  9. #29

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    With respect to wear and tear on vehicles for section hiking. i really do not see it as an issue. I was sectioning for about 8 years. I had Honda Cicic that got 40 MPG. If anything I did not use it enough when nor backpacking. Long distance driving does not wear out a vehicle, its the stop start warm up cycles that do it. About the only wear item is tires and on my civic I could buy a set of 4 for under $200 and change. I was going to own a reliable var whether I section hiked or not. The civic lasted 8 years and was sold to a college kid who got a couple of more years on it. I think it died by neglect. I hiked with another person and we frequently took two cars down. No waiting for shuttles, resupply from trunk and options if we needed to change our itinerary. I never minded the long drives south but must admit the drives home at the end or a week or two of hiking was not as nice.

  10. #30

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    Drive vs Fly

    Google says it takes about 18 hours to drive from Cookeville, TN to Gorham NH ~1200 miles. At best that's two 9 hour days of driving. With breaks that's about 12 hours on the road. Best to make that 2 and a half days, to arrive in daylight hours and not so beat. Round trip, your looking at loosing 5-6 days to travel out of your 14. That's a pretty big hit.

    In terms of maximizing trail time, flying wins. Deciding if it's something you really want to do at this time is another question.
    Follow slogoen on Instagram.

  11. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by Berserker View Post
    Glad you are considering the current situation. As for the driving though, let's assume everything "kind of" blows over (I think we all know this is gonna drag on for quite a while). Why not drive? I drove up there for all my sections and I realize I'm probably several hours closer than you, but this seems like a pretty dang good compromise. Then you are staying away from public transportation and depending on the logistics you could potentially avoid hotels too. The driving would take a little longer, but would definitely be the far safer option (for you and the surrounding communities) to get there considering things aren't going to be 100% back to normal.
    I guess what I'm trying to say is if I were thinking of doing this I would be driving, camping and bringing everything with me that I need to eliminate all unnecessary stops. Ideally I'd stop for gas a few times, maybe hit a few drive thrus for food, and the rest of the time I'd be in my car, at a campsite or hiking.
    SO driving up is currently our plan A. 3 of us going, starting at 4pm on a Friday, we will be in New Hampshire around 10am Saturday. Each taking a 6 hour driving shift, and otherwise sleeping. Our 3rd companion is looking very forward to being a dedicated transporter and day hiking and doing some overnights when logistics allows. But he has never had any desire to do every mile, 12 hour days or the terrain like NH has to offer.

    I have discussed this and all trip plans with both of my trip companions, as well as my WIFE (Yes Gambit finally got married, life is great) and they all 3 are going to help me put common sense over dedication to going on the trip.

    My plan B is if NH just doesn't look reasonable for Late June, that the 3 of us will save our vaca time for October, and redo a section for a week or two that they two have not yet done. I am always up for some more PA time so that wouldn't be that bad

    Lets just say for sanity check, how does the following table look from a reasonable perspective?


    June 20 July 4th 15
    Start Total Miles Stop Miles Days Total Day Slack? Drive Miles Drive Time Nights Location Driver POI
    US3 - Franconia Notch, NH 27.7 US302 - Crawford Notch, NH 27.7 3 3 No 21.1 25
    US302 - Crawford Notch, NH 40.2 Mt Washington 12.5 1 4 Yes 42 90 Mt Washington Summit
    Mt Washington 53.7 NH16 - Pinkham Notch, NH 13.5 1 5 Yes 10.4 45
    zero 53.7 Zero - Gorham, NH 0 1 6 NA 10.6 15 Gorham, NH
    NH16 - Pinkham Notch, NH 74.8 US2 - Gorham, NH 21.1 2 8 No 10.6 15
    US2 - Gorham, NH 105.9 ME26 - Grafton Notch, ME 31.1 3 11 No 39.3 48 1/2/West Bethel
    zero 105.9 Zero - West Bethel 0 1 12 NA 19.4 25 West Bethel
    ME26 - Grafton Notch, ME 116.2 EB Hill RD - Andover, ME 10.3 1 13 Yes 11.2 20
    EB Hill RD - Andover, ME 126.3 S Arm RD, Black Brook ME 10.1 1 14 Yes 16.3 30
    S Arm RD, Black Brook ME 139.6 ME-17 Oquossoc, ME 13.3 1 15 Yes 19.9 35
    Total 139.6 15 200.8 348
    Trail Miles: 4,927.6
    AT Map 1: Complete 2013-2021
    Sheltowee Trace: Complete 2020-2023
    Pinhoti Trail: Complete 2023-2024
    Foothills Trail: 0.0
    AT Map 2: 279.4
    BMT: 52.7
    CDT: 85.4

  12. #32
    Registered User Christoph's Avatar
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    02-18-2015
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    Valdosta, Georgia
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    Looks like great plan, with a backup plan. I'm planning one around the Smokies so I can get miles in and be with my brother who's sectioning the whole thing.
    - Trail name: Thumper

  13. #33

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    Driving straight through, eh? It will take longer then 18 hours, even if you break the speed limit most of the way. You will need to stop for gas at least 3 times and to stretch legs, switch drivers, get something to eat. You might snooze a little when not driving, but don't expect to be rested. Then you expect to find an open tent platform at Liberty Springs on a Saturday afternoon? Not going to happen. Unless it's raining buckets, which is a possibility.

    A better plan would be to rest Saturday and head up Sunday. It's a long hard day, but it's possible to go from Franconia to Garfield tent site, then to Crawford the next day, but it will be almost dark by the time you get to Crawford and you will be very tired.

    How do you plan to get down off of Washington? Your buddy going to drive up? The summit of Mt Washington is a NH state park. Currently only NH residents are allowed in state parks. Maybe this will change middle of June, but maybe not.

    The big unknown is weather. June can be a chilly and wet month. You can count on at least 4-5 rainy days in a two week span. Maybe more. Much of the trail you want to hike is a place you really don't want to be in stormy weather. You just have to take your chances with the weather and hope you have good days when you really need them.
    Follow slogoen on Instagram.

  14. #34

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    I have done marathon drives in the past including Franklin TN to Gorham NH in on shot solo after 2 weeks of hiking. and a lot of one shots to PA and VA. The trick is bring a cooler and while one person is gassing up the others are using the facilities. Long stops ruin the average speed. Generally unless there is enforcement the trucks are running 80 MPH. I have also done solos from Green Bay Wi to Portland a few times. I don't sleep in car so doesn't make much difference whether I drive.

    My guess is NH is going to let tourists in by July. Worst case scramble up your route a bit and save Washington for the last day so its in July if possible. That said my suspicion is that there will be attempts at limiting traffic up the mountain to prevent the inevitable crowding at the summit. They really do not like to book reservations for hikers down on the vans in the PM You may want to consider lining up at the gate in the AM or see if they are running the AM hiker shuttle and do two top to bottom hikes two days in row or maybe break them up as they are both long days due to the rockhopping. Starting out fresh in AM from the summit is nice and not having to climb up 4000 feet doesn't hurt. Once you head down Madison past treeline, not much for views but Webster Cliffs on the other end is far better going north to south then south the north view wise. Beware the hike from Pinkham has some serious elevation changes along the way. Carter Notch is steep down and up while descending North Carter and Moriah both have real steep slopes.

    This is some serious mileage, bad weather could screw things up. These are thru hiker daily miles for the whites, most weekend warriors would have a tough time getting up to speed from weekend hikes to daily hikes of this magnitude, I would suggest that the last couple of days may be aspirational. You may need a zero or two if the weather is dangerous. The nice thing with the plan is if you are flexible having a transport driver can really help do on the fly revisions. There are lots of side roads with side trails that connect up with the AT (if he can find them). Do some research in advance on Success Pond road in Berlin and Bull Branch Road at the end of the Sunday River Road to cover yourself. The fire roads in the National Forest are not that hard to find.

    The roads with the free national forest sites are the south end of Cherry Mountain road, Haystack Road and Gale River Loop Road. They are first come first served with zero facilities, very popular Friday and Sat nights.

  15. #35

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    Since appears two will be hiking with one more shuttling and day hiking, perhaps the NH locals could provide Gambitt with expectations as far as cell coverage. It is great having that third guy with the car, especially if you have to pull an audible and change plans, but how realistic is it to always have cell coverage to do that?
    Perhaps not an issue, but want to make sure realistic assumptions are being made.
    The road to glory cannot be followed with much baggage.
    Richard Ewell, CSA General


  16. #36

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    Cell coverage is mostly okay, but in the notches it's iffy. Really iffy once into Maine.

    I would suggest seeing about making a weeks reservation at the FS Dolly Cop campground. It's close to Gorham and more or less centrally located. It would be easier to get in and out of, and less risky of finding campsites along the FS roads, which really aren't conveniently located for the most part. If you detour onto these roads and can't find a site and it's getting dark, what then?

    Success pond road is really beat up, especially the sections the ATVers are allowed on. Top speed is 10 MPH and not recommend for a sedan.
    Follow slogoen on Instagram.

  17. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slo-go'en View Post
    Cell coverage is mostly okay, but in the notches it's iffy. Really iffy once into Maine.

    I would suggest seeing about making a weeks reservation at the FS Dolly Cop campground. It's close to Gorham and more or less centrally located. It would be easier to get in and out of, and less risky of finding campsites along the FS roads, which really aren't conveniently located for the most part. If you detour onto these roads and can't find a site and it's getting dark, what then?

    Success pond road is really beat up, especially the sections the ATVers are allowed on. Top speed is 10 MPH and not recommend for a sedan.
    Thanks Slo I will be checking into that campground tomorrow!
    Trail Miles: 4,927.6
    AT Map 1: Complete 2013-2021
    Sheltowee Trace: Complete 2020-2023
    Pinhoti Trail: Complete 2023-2024
    Foothills Trail: 0.0
    AT Map 2: 279.4
    BMT: 52.7
    CDT: 85.4

  18. #38

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    One other thing, It would be easier to take the Mt Washington 9AM hiker shuttle to the summit and then hiking down to either Pinkham or Crawford.
    Follow slogoen on Instagram.

  19. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slo-go'en View Post
    One other thing, It would be easier to take the Mt Washington 9AM hiker shuttle to the summit and then hiking down to either Pinkham or Crawford.
    Or both 2 days in a row aye?
    Trail Miles: 4,927.6
    AT Map 1: Complete 2013-2021
    Sheltowee Trace: Complete 2020-2023
    Pinhoti Trail: Complete 2023-2024
    Foothills Trail: 0.0
    AT Map 2: 279.4
    BMT: 52.7
    CDT: 85.4

  20. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gambit McCrae View Post
    Or both 2 days in a row aye?
    Yes, generally in the summer the summits and ridgeline build clouds during the day, its not unusual to see the summits start to build clouds as the day heats up. Photochemical smog in the air also forms as the day warms up so views tend to haze up in the afternoon. Also air quality can degrade as the day warms up. Late June is a bit early for thunderstorms but they tend to form during the afternoon and the summits attract thunderstorms (you will be hiking past Thunderstorm Junction on Mt Adams. Obviously if there a front coming through it could be cloudy in the AM and clear during the day but in general the weather is cooler but nicer in the AM on the summit ridge. Sun exposure is also something to consider. Hiking above treeline during mid day can really cause a major sunburn. If you are hiking in the morning when its cool its easier to wear long pants and sleeves otherwise you really need to slather on the sunblock. Therefore starting on top and hiking down to the valleys improves your chances of optimizing your views and experience from above treeline. You may start out with warmer gear in the AM but you would be carrying it anyhow. The longest day of the year is June 21st so you can hike without a headlamp until about 9 PM. Logistically its easier and with the potential limits on summit capacity you are better off heading up early than taking your friend taking his chances on being able to get up to the summit late in the day. The road closes to get guests down before dark so there is chance you can get stranded if you are running late.

    Its also more likely you will want to visit the various summits along the way in the AM when you are fresh. Dedicated whiteblazers skip the summits of Eisenhower, Monroe, Clay Jefferson and Adams (all worth the visit). There are definitely side trails off the AT to visit the summits but they usually are a 500 foot elevation gain. I suspect many thruhikers at this point just go over the summits and skip the AT but its little harder to get the motivation later in the day then in the AM.

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