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  1. #1
    Registered User JNI64's Avatar
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    Default Zion Nat park hiker found?

    Investigators are questioning story of hiker found, say statements " don't add up ". They found Holly Coutier,(someone saw her hammock and reported it ) after 12 days . She was 1/2 mile off trail and where a shuttle dropped her off. Her sister said she fasted for a couple days before she left. She was near a river but the water was toxic and non potable which she was aware of. Her sister said she became disoriented and hit her head on a tree. So let's sum up , 15 days or more without food, 12 days without water, 1/2 mile off trail in the main part of the canyon where 1,000's of people walked by in those 12 days.
    I believe inchworm was 1/2 mile or less off trail but much different terrain.

    I Googled longest person lived without water and a austrian man went without water for 18 days after accidentally being left in a holding cell In 1979.

    The family gofundme has raised $12,000 and they say it will go to rescue efforts, medical and "therapy costs " oh my !

    And she walked out on her own.

  2. #2
    Registered User Venchka's Avatar
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    One more advertisement for a PLB or InReach gizmo.
    Non potable water in a National Park?
    Or maybe we’ll get the real story someday?
    Wayne

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by JNI64 View Post
    Investigators are questioning story of hiker found, say statements " don't add up ". ... So let's sum up , 15 days or more without food, 12 days without water, 1/2 mile off trail in the main part of the canyon where 1,000's of people walked by in those 12 days.
    ...
    I Googled longest person lived without water and a austrian man went without water for 18 days after accidentally being left in a holding cell In 1979.

    The family gofundme has raised $12,000 and they say it will go to rescue efforts, medical and "therapy costs " oh my !

    And she walked out on her own.

    Saying that doesn't add up is putting it mildly!

    I'd always heard 3 days without water is the typical max. Maybe that's before organ damage starts, not death. In any case, it seems fantastical. There are a lot of attention seekers in the world today, and some of them hike.

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    GoldenBear's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Here's a news article

    More specific information:
    https://www.latimes.com/california/s...-missing-hiker
    The article clearly states: "Some family members said she drank the river water, which is known to be full of deadly toxins and would’ve likely left her very ill."
    In other words, the statement that she went 12 days without water is false.

    When she was found, medical personnel reported that she had concussion, and that her dehydration was leading to kidney failure. Obviously (1) she was not faking either medical condition and (2) either can lead to faulty and inconsistent memories of what happened. Thus, it is no surprise that the accounts reported by family members can be highly varied.

    Ms Courtier went into Zion without adequate preparation, for reasons she never made clear to anyone -- perhaps not even to herself. No surprise, then, that she got into severe trouble in her quest for -- well, whatever it was she was seeking. Blessedly, she survived this trouble, and needed medical assistance -- an expense that can cost thousands of dollars. It also appears the family is willing to reimburse the cost of the search for her. And it is no surprise that she needs some therapy for (1) this ordeal and (2) whatever possessed to try this in the first place. I thus have no problem if people want to support the family in any of these endeavors -- I choose not to do so, and nobody's forcing me to do so.

    So what exactly is your view of what happened?
    Last edited by GoldenBear; 10-25-2020 at 14:33.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GoldenBear View Post
    So what exactly is your view of what happened?

    IDK if you're asking me, but I withhold judgment about what actually happened; there's no way for me to know for sure, I would have to rely on information provided by others. My comments related to (and are contingent upon) the assertions mentioned in the OP.

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    GoldenBear's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Suggestion

    Why not read the news article, and then reach a far better conclusion? If nothing else, you'll read that Ms Courtier did drink water while out there, and your statement about her surviving without water is pretty meaningless.

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    Registered User JNI64's Avatar
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    I read the whole article and for me some things still don't add up. Her family said she was having some sort of mental breakdown, family members also said she wet her lips not drank the toxic water. She left the shuttle with no phone, water, food and only ends up 1/2 mile away with a hammock? And they knew exactly where what time she went missing and started a sar . And a very popular trail with that many people walking by she never heard anyone? I just cannot help but think there's more to this one.
    Maybe she didn't even want to be found if she was depressed or having a mental breakdown ...
    Anyway I'm glad she's okay.....

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by GoldenBear View Post
    More specific information:



    Blessedly, she survived this trouble, and needed hospitalization in the ICU -- a medical expense that can cost thousands of dollars. It also appears the family is willing to reimburse the cost of the search for her. And it is no surprise that she needs some therapy for (1) this ordeal and (2) whatever possessed to try this in the first place. I thus have no problem if people want to support the family in any of these endeavors -- I choose not to do so, and nobody's forcing me to do so.
    I couldn’t find anywhere in the article saying she needed hospitalization in the ICU.

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    GoldenBear's Avatar
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    Unhappy You are correct -- I was wrong.

    I couldn’t find anywhere in the article saying she needed hospitalization in the ICU
    Which is why I'll change the wording.
    When I recognize I've made a mis-statement, I correct it ASAP.

    Just like someone saying that Ms Courtier went twelve days without water.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by GoldenBear View Post
    Which is why I'll change the wording.
    When I recognize I've made a mis-statement, I correct it ASAP.

    Just like someone saying that Ms Courtier went twelve days without water.
    I also couldn’t find in the article anywhere that said she needed medical assistance. In fact, it said

    “They [the Zion team] apparently talked to her and felt she was OK to be released to the family.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by GoldenBear View Post
    Why not read the news article
    Because it's paywalled and I'm not an LA Times subscriber.

  12. #12
    Registered User JNI64's Avatar
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    Some family members say she drank water, other family members say she merely wet her lips. But apparently the water is so toxic it will kill you.
    I read it again and what the one sister said about her having a traumatic last couple years and not getting help. And her other sister said she was acting weird a couple days before.
    That's why I say maybe she didn't want to be found.
    But that's why I also say I'm glad she's okay.
    Last edited by JNI64; 10-25-2020 at 15:25.

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    And through all this discussion, this group isn't questioning the assumptions about the water? The park service stated that, based on tests from a couple months ago, the river was deadly if the sediments were disturbed. The cause of the toxic water was(is) the release of toxin from bottom dwelling (benthic) algae. The implication is that collecting and drinking water from the surface, upstream of any disturbance, might be significantly lower in or possibly even absent of harmful levels of toxin. Being a toxic algal event, the issue is likely not a constant, and only periodic in nature, so what was a deadly river two months ago could be relatively safer today.

    Finally, the park personnel questioning the story don't appear to actually understand the biology. An unrealistically strong immune system might protect a consumer from ingested toxic algae (which is not the issue in this case). BUT, ones immune system plays little or no role in protection against a toxin released into the water (the case described here).

    So yeah, the story if fishy as all get-out. But, the toxic water, as definitive evidence of "fish", is also a flawed argument.
    I'm not lost. I'm exploring.

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    Lightbulb What to do

    Because it's paywalled and I'm not an LA Times subscribe
    Neither am I, and I had no trouble getting in to read it. Heck, I even have Ad-Blocker, that forces me to permit ads on a specific story. I'm not sure why you were unable to get in.

    However, if you spend a few seconds to do an internet search for
    courtier zion found
    (like I did), you'll find articles like:
    https://www.abc4.com/news/southern-u...olly-courtier/
    https://www.foxnews.com/us/zion-hike...pancies-rescue

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    Lightbulb Getting more information

    I also couldn’t find in the article anywhere that said she needed medical assistance
    Spend a few more seconds doing research, and you'll find this article:
    https://www.foxnews.com/us/zion-hike...pancies-rescue
    which states, "Courtier’s family then took her to the hospital, according to the report"

  16. #16

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    As is usual in these cases, we simply don’t have enough facts to really know really happened. We can speculate all we want, but in the end it is only speculation until more data is available.

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by gpburdelljr View Post
    I couldn’t find anywhere in the article saying she needed hospitalization in the ICU.
    I read she walked out unassisted. Hardly seems like someone suffering kidney failure for sure. I posted an article where the local police are investigating because the sheriff says it doesn't add up. it's in the original thread about this "lost hiker."
    https://tinyurl.com/MyFDresults

    A vigorous five-mile walk will do more good for an unhappy but otherwise healthy adult than all the medicine and psychology in the world. ~Paul Dudley White

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by PennyPincher View Post
    I read she walked out unassisted. Hardly seems like someone suffering kidney failure for sure. I posted an article where the local police are investigating because the sheriff says it doesn't add up. it's in the original thread about this "lost hiker."
    here's the article
    https://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2020...uestion-story/
    But a sergeant who was involved in assisting with the search has called into question some of the family’s story.
    “The statements that the family is giving and the statements the park is giving don’t add up,” Sgt. Darrell Cashin, with the Washington County Sheriff’s Department, said to the ABC station in Salt Lake City.
    Authorities said Courtier was found half a mile from where a shuttle had dropped her off on Oct. 6.
    “She’s in the main part of the canyon, which always has thousands of people walking up and down those trails,” Cashin said to local reporters. “I’m sure people walked by yelling for her.”
    https://tinyurl.com/MyFDresults

    A vigorous five-mile walk will do more good for an unhappy but otherwise healthy adult than all the medicine and psychology in the world. ~Paul Dudley White

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    Quote Originally Posted by gpburdelljr View Post
    As is usual in these cases, we simply don’t have enough facts to really know really happened. We can speculate all we want, but in the end it is only speculation until more data is available.


    exactly.....

    and probably more data will never be released......

    i worked in the news business for 25 years and in situations similar to this-----we just had to report the facts that we handed to us........

    99 percent of the time we never really got the full story.............or if we got the full story, some of it might have been off the
    record and we couldn't report it.........


    there's always more to the story than what's on the face of it.....

  20. #20
    Registered User JNI64's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PennyPincher View Post
    here's the article
    https://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2020...uestion-story/
    But a sergeant who was involved in assisting with the search has called into question some of the family’s story.
    “The statements that the family is giving and the statements the park is giving don’t add up,” Sgt. Darrell Cashin, with the Washington County Sheriff’s Department, said to the ABC station in Salt Lake City.
    Authorities said Courtier was found half a mile from where a shuttle had dropped her off on Oct. 6.
    “She’s in the main part of the canyon, which always has thousands of people walking up and down those trails,” Cashin said to local reporters. “I’m sure people walked by yelling for her.”
    That is the article I was quoting when I started this thread.
    It says a mother and son seen her hammock and notified authorities. And her sister said she went in looking for solitude and off grid a 1/2 mile from the shuttle?
    Ok maybe she hit her head on a tree, then what she hangs her hammock up for 2 weeks hanging out ? And doesn’t hear thousands of people walking by some probably yelling for her . Sar also was looking for 10 days. Don't know why they didn't find her? And don't know why she didn't hear their attempts at finding her?
    Last edited by JNI64; 10-25-2020 at 20:32.

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