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  1. #61
    Registered User Crossup's Avatar
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    Yes, Calabj has it right.

    Indeed, while I do suffer from multiple 6 ounce pack bloat it is SO worth it to carry a footprint and especially for Big Agnes Ultralight tents. I've owned a CopperSpur 3 with footprint, a FlyCreek HV UL2 with footprint(and uses that with my current CopperSpur HV UL2 by staking out the rear corners) and soon will own a second CS HV UL2 and will have footprints for both.

    As Hookoodooku points out its not much of a tarp but its way better than none when you need tarp functionality and dont carry one for shelter. I dont mind carrying things that serve multiple purposes, for example a pack rain cover. Its handy for a number of things besides covering your pack from rain(mine stays on full time) and its the same with a footprint, very handy

    Quote Originally Posted by CalebJ View Post
    I read it as Crossup felt like adding 6 ounces for a footprint was a good trade.

  2. #62

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    BA copper spur hands down. worth ever penny!

    + + + +

    btw: the 2 man has 2 doors... as a one man tent owner, i wish i had.

    .

  3. #63
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    I've voted for this with my pocket book twice(or 3 times if you count the CS3) One thing people dont seem to get when comparing is to compare the best sale prices. Popular high volume brands are nearly always discounted at some point in the year.
    If you plan ahead so you can time your purchase for the off season it can reap huge discounts. I got a new current year FlyCreek HV UL2 for $156 a few years ago. I ordered a 2020 Copper Spur HV UL2 a month ago for $337 from a big name retailer and its now full boat at the same company. Demand is up and the market for used gear is HOT, I sold my FlyCreek in an hour on Facebook Market place and made a ton of profit. So waiting for the hiking season to buy gear is an expensive option. Also beware if buying NOS, sometimes you may find you cant find options likes footprints for non current models.

    Quote Originally Posted by camper10469 View Post
    BA copper spur hands down. worth ever penny!

    + + + +

    btw: the 2 man has 2 doors... as a one man tent owner, i wish i had.

    .

  4. #64
    Registered User NY HIKER 50's Avatar
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    A tarp tent would work. However, a heavier tent that has almost been bombproof and has served me well is the Eureka Timberline. It is totally freestanding, you can put it up without the fly, and the cleaning is easy. You just lift and shake it out. I finally had to part with it since it started to smell bad. If anyone else has said this I had no time to read the thread.

  5. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by NY HIKER 50 View Post
    A tarp tent would work. However, a heavier tent that has almost been bombproof and has served me well is the Eureka Timberline. It is totally freestanding, you can put it up without the fly, and the cleaning is easy. You just lift and shake it out. I finally had to part with it since it started to smell bad. If anyone else has said this I had no time to read the thread.
    For backpacking?? I had one many moons ago and while it is a great tent it weighs about 7.5lbs... which on some warm-weather trips is more than my entire base weight these days.
    UL, because nobody ever asks "How can I make my pack heavier?"

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmoulder View Post
    For backpacking?? I had one many moons ago and while it is a great tent it weighs about 7.5lbs... which on some warm-weather trips is more than my entire base weight these days.
    I agree. I did say it was heavy and I've scaled back since then. However, during some torrential downpours it was nice to have the door open and i can now do that with a tarp. The Catskills in NY were the worst when it came to downpours. Now I have learned. It was a great tent.

  7. #67
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    On its final days I was using only the fly for cover.

  8. #68

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    Quote Originally Posted by NY HIKER 50 View Post
    I agree. I did say it was heavy and I've scaled back since then. However, during some torrential downpours it was nice to have the door open and i can now do that with a tarp. The Catskills in NY were the worst when it came to downpours. Now I have learned. It was a great tent.
    It is definitely a great, classic design. One of my best friends and I used it on many canoe and backpacking trips.

    Back in the mid '90s I had occasion to speak to one of the designers involved in the development of the Timberline at Eureka! (Johnson Camping) who told me that they'd sold over a million of them at that time, and it's probably over 2 million or more by now. I'd still buy one today as a very decent car camping tent, or for canoeing if no significant portages are concerned, and certainly for scouting or other group trips where inexpensive tents that are easy to set up are desired.
    UL, because nobody ever asks "How can I make my pack heavier?"

  9. #69
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    I had a Eureka Timberline from probably 40 years ago (are they that old). The waterproof coating disintegrated years ago and it went to the great campground in the sky where all good tents go.

    As for the OP, I gather you have figured out that there are good reasons to want a free standing tent, but not having trekking poles is not really one of them (since you can use tent poles instead). The questions really is do you want a free standing tent or a tent that is staked. Free standing tents can offer some advantage when choosing a site as there are places or conditions where staking out a tent would be problematic. However staked tents may be lighter (even with the poles added instead of trekking poles) and give you a wide variety of excellent designs to choose from. One other advantage of the staked tents is that if you break a pole, there is a good backup option available if you are hiking anywhere near trees - a 115 cm long stick. However most free standing tents have long complex flexible pole systems and I'm not sure what people do if one of these poles break in the field. maybe there is a good option someone could share.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odd Man Out View Post
    ... One other advantage of the staked tents is that if you break a pole, there is a good backup option available if you are hiking anywhere near trees - a 115 cm long stick. However most free standing tents have long complex flexible pole systems and I'm not sure what people do if one of these poles break in the field. maybe there is a good option someone could share.
    Good point!
    Coming from a Boy Scouts background using staked tents, I went towards dome tents (freestanding) the very day I saw the first one, back in the late 70ties, and never looked back.
    The most perfect freestanding dome tent was the Salewa Sierra Nevada which has a pretty simple straight pole system you could replace by a suitable stick from some bush, or field repair using any metal sleeve you might find.

    The very advanced and modern MSR Hubba Hubba NX does not offer much when it comes to field repair, most likely you are out of the game if you break a pole (and I did break one recently).
    My Exped Venus II Extreme has a similar (and very simple) pole system that comes close to the old Salewa mentioned above, and it comes with three pieces of repair sleeve that would allow to perform a field repair. Highly recommended.

  11. #71
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    Not sure what you mean about a simple straight pole system that can be replaced with sticks on the Salewa Nevada.
    A repair is probably easier on those (with a sleeve or something lie that) than with the hubbed poles but I don't see how sticks could help all that much.
    This is the Sierra Nevada I know$_59.jpg

  12. #72
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    Franco,
    Exactly this tent.
    The poles are three straight ones (segmented though) and the inner is fixed by velcro loops.
    So if one of the poles breaks you could use any suitable stick and tie it parallel to the broken piece (the way you would splint a broken bone) and you are good to spend some more nights in the tent
    If the tent has sleeves where you have to insert the poles a field repair is not that easy, my Exped has sleeves but it comes with repair joints.

    The way my MSR broke, I'm out of ideas how to field repair it:

    MSR_broken-pole.JPG

  13. #73
    Registered User Crossup's Avatar
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    This kind of failure is also potentially an issue with my Big Agnes tents too. They supply a repair sleeve tube but its stupid big so it seems much more wishful thinking than a decent repair. With the BA tents at least, the poles are made with ends that go inside the tube(no oversized end fittings), one can use a tight fitting piece of tubing which should support a tube that breaks as shown in your photo. If the hub inner tube breaks or the hub itself than you will need to do a splint type repair.
    So thanks for pointing out his kind of failure,I'm ditching the supplied repair sleeve and will be carrying a tight fitting one. For my Copper Spur it looks like 9mm ID will be the size.
    Quote Originally Posted by Leo L. View Post
    Franco,
    Exactly this tent.
    The poles are three straight ones (segmented though) and the inner is fixed by velcro loops.
    So if one of the poles breaks you could use any suitable stick and tie it parallel to the broken piece (the way you would splint a broken bone) and you are good to spend some more nights in the tent
    If the tent has sleeves where you have to insert the poles a field repair is not that easy, my Exped has sleeves but it comes with repair joints.

    The way my MSR broke, I'm out of ideas how to field repair it:

    MSR_broken-pole.JPG

  14. #74
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    Luckily, the failure happend back home so no serious harm was done.
    I just went to my garage which hosts a private miniature mechanical shop, switched on the lathe and fabricated a slim fitting sleeve.
    Still, I had to dismantle the pole, apply the sleeve from the other end of the affected section and bring it down over the broken (and thus much wider) end.
    Again, a task that I could not perform in the field in lack of proper tools.

    MSR_repair-pole.JPG

  15. #75

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    the eureka is a great tent classic but not for backpacking. the reason they sold so many is its a rugged tent for heavy use, boy scouts n groups.

    btw, i love the catskills. great place to test your equipment!

  16. #76

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    thats where you can use that sleeve.


    Quote Originally Posted by Leo L. View Post
    Luckily, the failure happend back home so no serious harm was done.
    I just went to my garage which hosts a private miniature mechanical shop, switched on the lathe and fabricated a slim fitting sleeve.
    Still, I had to dismantle the pole, apply the sleeve from the other end of the affected section and bring it down over the broken (and thus much wider) end.
    Again, a task that I could not perform in the field in lack of proper tools.

    MSR_repair-pole.JPG

  17. #77
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    That sleeve repair works just fine, problem is its not going to work for a field repair, even if I carried a spare sleeve, because you'd need a vise, some strong pliers and a small hammer to push the sleeve over the widened (tulip-shaped) broken end.

  18. #78
    Registered User Crossup's Avatar
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    I love it, I too have a home machine shop(basement) and in my post above I assumed most would not have access to a lathe so I glossed over the fact that the Big Agnes DAS tubes are 8.9mm. So I will be turning a sleeve for the hub end that is a tight fit just in case. If a tube gets broken in the middle nothing can be done that will be tight fitting as the tubes are expanded at the connection points so a repair sleeve has to be large enough to go over those. So 9mm is good enough for that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Leo L. View Post
    Luckily, the failure happend back home so no serious harm was done.
    I just went to my garage which hosts a private miniature mechanical shop, switched on the lathe and fabricated a slim fitting sleeve.
    Still, I had to dismantle the pole, apply the sleeve from the other end of the affected section and bring it down over the broken (and thus much wider) end.
    Again, a task that I could not perform in the field in lack of proper tools.

    MSR_repair-pole.JPG

  19. #79
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    BTW, my comment above was .. just a comment.
    The problem Leo had with his hub is the reason why Henry Shires at Tarptent has never used that type of pole configuration.
    I suggested something like a hub many years ago, it would have been easier to field repair but still Henry was not keen to go there.
    And, just for some trivia, I think that Walrus was the first brand that sold a tent with a hub. The same designer later on did design the Hubba. But Bill Moss first design had something like that, I might check the dates later on.

  20. #80
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    Thanks for the insight, Franco.

    Basically, the Hubba works fine, but I would not call the design idiot-proof.
    There are way too many possible mistakes you can make when setting it up, especially the fly inside vs. outside, and the inner vs. the fly needs to be proper sided (only distinguishable by the colors of some small straps red vs. grey).
    Under bad conditions like storm, heavy rain and/or darkness I'd have serious problems to set it up quick and proper.

    Compared to the old Salewa Sierra Leone, which is all symmetrical and I could setup blind and one-handed in a thunderstorm.
    (OK, the Salewa is more than twice the weight of the MSR).

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