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  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Five Tango View Post
    I know someone who not only does not carry a stove,he doesn't even carry a cup to drink from!Not for everybody and certainly not for me but it works for him.If you carry the small gas canister and a BRS titanium stove it's gonna be about 8 oz total plus whatever you use to boil in.I can do without cooking better than not having a hot beverage twice daily.
    Where do I get such a lightweight isobutane cannister? The lightest I know are 8.5 oz full. My MSR rocket is 2.6 oz. I think my pot is around 3-4 oz if I recall. Nearly one pound all in. I would not be carrying a cup for sure.

  2. #22
    4eyedbuzzard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big_Old_Dog View Post
    I think my stove is about 3 oz and a 110g cannister is 7 oz and my pot is 3 oz. So, it is 13 oz. It is also space. Logically, it makes sense to leave it home. My gut says bring it and then ship it home. Part of this issue is that I have a bad back and that is why I don't want to take extra weight if it is not needed. I don't expect my pack to ever weigh more than 15 pounds even with a long carry, so, 13 oz is relatively a lot if not used. Thanks for the comments and advice so far.
    Going stoveless doesn't necessarily reduce carried weight or volume as many of the foods then selected will have inherently high water content (and weight) and also may not pack down as well as foods that reconstitute with hot water. I think it's more a convenience, logistics, and dietary decision than a pack weight and volume one.
    I was self employed once, but it proved too stressful. My boss was a jerk and my employee was a slacker - I didn't know whether to quit or fire myself.

  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by 4eyedbuzzard View Post
    Going stoveless doesn't necessarily reduce carried weight or volume as many of the foods then selected will have inherently high water content (and weight) and also may not pack down as well as foods that reconstitute with hot water. I think it's more a convenience, logistics, and dietary decision than a pack weight and volume one.
    I am LCHF keto type. Nothing denser.

  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Big_Old_Dog View Post
    I am specifically thinking of the 105 mile stretch from NOC to Standing Bear given my understanding that resupply at Fontana Dam is uncertain and much of the elevation is 5-6.000 feet. Unless something goes wrong, I do not plan to come off the trail between Fontana Hilton and Standing Bear although I understand Newfoundland Gap down to Gatlinburg is a common resupply. I'd just prefer to stay on trail as much as possible, in general. So, a good amount of food carry and nearly a pound of unused stove/cook gear is around a day of food.

    I am seeing a few solutions to my imagined problem based on what folks are suggesting. Probably overthinking on my part. I have to look into the small alky stove or maybe a few Nesbit cubes sounds good, too. Another alternative is to carefully monitor weather and take the expense of buying a stove and cartridge at NOC if the forecast looks shaky. If the weather looks good, assume the risk going stoveless. If bad weather forecast, take the stove or if very bad (deep snow), just wait the storm out. Lots of very good suggestions, thank you.
    The general store at Fontana Village is usually stocked pretty good with hiker food. Provided it's still operating. In theory they should be open, but with COVID that might not be the case this year. Or send a package to the PO there. Gatlinburg is not a great resupply stop unless your spending the night there. The grocery store is way outside of town. The trolley will get you there, but it takes over an hour one way. I spent pretty much half a day getting there and back.

    The weather in the GSMNP can still be iffy in early May. Last time I hiked through there that time of year it rained for 5 days...
    Follow slogoen on Instagram.

  5. #25
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    [QUOTE=Tipi Walter;2281008]I pulled an 18 day no stove trip back in April 2015 and it doesn't work for me.

    Managing Discomfort and a stove increases my comfort levels.

    This sums up long distance hiking.

  6. #26
    Garlic
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    I think it's not a safety issue. In cold emergencies, a hot drink is helpful, administered by a rescuer, and is pretty far down on the priority list. Always concentrate on shelter and dry insulation first.

    Of course it's best to not get cold in the first place. Get out of weather your clothing and experience can't handle, in your shelter or in town, before it becomes a safety issue.

    I once worked up the number of calories available in a cup of warm water, when heated 40F above body temperature (the warmest you can drink without causing pain or doing damage). A Snickers bar contains more caloric energy, and you don't have to futz with a stove when it's wet and cold out. Getting in a dry sleeping bag and eating is the easier thing to do. Having a caring partner (or rescuer) serve you the hot drink while you're in your shelter is a different story.
    "Throw a loaf of bread and a pound of tea in an old sack and jump over the back fence." John Muir on expedition planning

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by 4eyedbuzzard View Post
    Going stoveless doesn't necessarily reduce carried weight or volume as many of the foods then selected will have inherently high water content (and weight) and also may not pack down as well as foods that reconstitute with hot water. I think it's more a convenience, logistics, and dietary decision than a pack weight and volume one.
    You're absolutely right. I can carry an overall lighter food load if I bring a stove---because dehydrated foods are extremely light---since the water you need to reconstitute them is not in your pack but instead found along the trail and therefore not carried. This makes a real difference on long trips w/o resupply.

    In fact, a person could carry no "snackables" (no-cook foods) on a trip and only carry cookable dehydrated meals in bulk and his food load would be very light---even with 15 days worth of meals (two cooked meals per day).

    Of course most of us don't have the discipline to do such a thing as we desire both our hot meals and our snackables like raisins and granola bars and peanut/nut butters and walnuts and honey and tahini and pringles and corn chips and pemmican and breads ETCETC. (Like bread contains approx 30 grams water per 100 grams of bread).

    Another vital purpose of a stove is to melt snow and keep water thawed on winter trips when temps dip to 0F or below.

  8. #28
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    Default Is Stoveless a safety issue

    Stove also adds a means of water purification when your Sawyer squeeze clogs up. From personal experience...

  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mockernut View Post
    Stove also adds a means of water purification when your Sawyer squeeze clogs up. From personal experience...
    Yes, I often dip my cook pot in rivers because I'm too lazy to filter or it's too cold and use the boil method to purify---since I'm cooking up a meal anyway.

  10. #30
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    no. not a safety issue at all

  11. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by Big_Old_Dog View Post
    Where do I get such a lightweight isobutane cannister? The lightest I know are 8.5 oz full. My MSR rocket is 2.6 oz. I think my pot is around 3-4 oz if I recall. Nearly one pound all in. I would not be carrying a cup for sure.
    The BRS stove is about an ounce. So 8-9 ounces including the canister.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by garlic08 View Post
    .
    I once worked up the number of calories available in a cup of warm water, when heated 40F above body temperature (the warmest you can drink without causing pain or doing damage). A Snickers bar contains more caloric energy, and you don't have to futz with a stove when it's wet and cold out. Getting in a dry sleeping bag and eating is the easier thing to do. Having a caring partner (or rescuer) serve you the hot drink while you're in your shelter is a different story.
    While the calories may be true, it's not as simple as that. When the body's core is already low, adding something cold or even frozen (which cold food would typically be), has to initially be brought up to body temperature before any calories from it can be accounted for. This is the hitting you when you're down aspect of eating cold food in such conditions, getting worse before it can get better. Hot water would serve to help get the body towards a good temperature and additional hydration and would seem, within reason, to be a small start in the right direction.

  13. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lone Wolf View Post
    no. not a safety issue at all
    Thank you. No stove for me.

    A few of my reasons in case anyone is interested.

    1. Added space and weight in an UL setup
    2. Excessive complexity of a stove detracts overall experience for me
    3. Hate cooking, hate cleanup
    4. Crouching will kill my knees and neck. No fun for sure.
    5. Most of the food I eat does not require a stove, anyway
    6. 50-70% of my daily calories normally come from fats. It is doubtful by my calculations that any ramen, couscous, MH, pasta packs can not come close to the density of my normal diet. Ketogenic diets are well beyond the scope of this Post/thread, but will say an adapted hiker needs far fewer calories intake than one relying upon carbohydrates. I simply have no need to rehydrate food stuffs because the are not part of my diet. I know this makes no sense to anyone but explaining in case it helps understand why I don't have much need for a stove, other than to warm up tea. If I develop a taste for Ramen, I can always procure a soaking tub.
    7. I simply would not use a stove often and since there seems no compelling reason to take one, I will leave it behind.

    Thanks for all the input to everyone.

  14. #34
    Garlic
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starchild View Post
    While the calories may be true, it's not as simple as that. When the body's core is already low, adding something cold or even frozen (which cold food would typically be), has to initially be brought up to body temperature before any calories from it can be accounted for. This is the hitting you when you're down aspect of eating cold food in such conditions, getting worse before it can get better. Hot water would serve to help get the body towards a good temperature and additional hydration and would seem, within reason, to be a small start in the right direction.
    If you want a more accurate model, also include the extra time spent out in harsh weather heating water on the stove. If you're in the early stages of hypothermia, add extra time and factor in the risk of spills and accidents (since we're discussing safety).
    "Throw a loaf of bread and a pound of tea in an old sack and jump over the back fence." John Muir on expedition planning

  15. #35
    Garlic
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big_Old_Dog View Post
    ...A few of my reasons in case anyone is interested.

    1. Added space and weight in an UL setup
    2. Excessive complexity of a stove detracts overall experience for me
    3. Hate cooking, hate cleanup
    4. Crouching will kill my knees and neck. No fun for sure.
    5. Most of the food I eat does not require a stove, anyway
    6. 50-70% of my daily calories normally come from fats. It is doubtful by my calculations that any ramen, couscous, MH, pasta packs can not come close to the density of my normal diet. Ketogenic diets are well beyond the scope of this Post/thread, but will say an adapted hiker needs far fewer calories intake than one relying upon carbohydrates. I simply have no need to rehydrate food stuffs because the are not part of my diet. I know this makes no sense to anyone but explaining in case it helps understand why I don't have much need for a stove, other than to warm up tea. If I develop a taste for Ramen, I can always procure a soaking tub.
    7. I simply would not use a stove often and since there seems no compelling reason to take one, I will leave it behind....
    I'll add a couple:

    8. Overall safer, no risk of stove accidents (scalds, burns, wildland fire).
    9. One less chore during town stops, with no fuel resupply.
    "Throw a loaf of bread and a pound of tea in an old sack and jump over the back fence." John Muir on expedition planning

  16. #36

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    Allowing glycogen to completely deplete or to become dehydrated by not constantly grazing while moving all day is up there with drenching yourself with sweat in cold conditions. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

    If one has glycogen, some anaerobic movement inside the sleeping bag will generate significant heat but gentle activity or if one is bonked so to speak, there isn't as much heat generated from aerobic energy production. Shivering violently is a fine example of anaerobic heat generation. Personally, if I did make the mistake of getting very cold or wet. I want to have my dry clothing on and into my bag. If I am still shivering, all will be well soon enough. In my experience, if you let if get worse (lower core temperature) and shivering stops, this is real trouble. If I start to shiver violently, I'm stopping and the bag and/or tent comes out

  17. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by Big_Old_Dog View Post
    Thank you. No stove for me.
    Thanks for all the input to everyone.
    Good luck Big Old Dog, enjoy your cold/iced tea

  18. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by Big_Old_Dog View Post
    Allowing glycogen to completely deplete or to become dehydrated by not constantly grazing while moving all day is up there with drenching yourself with sweat in cold conditions. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

    If one has glycogen, some anaerobic movement inside the sleeping bag will generate significant heat but gentle activity or if one is bonked so to speak, there isn't as much heat generated from aerobic energy production. Shivering violently is a fine example of anaerobic heat generation. Personally, if I did make the mistake of getting very cold or wet. I want to have my dry clothing on and into my bag. If I am still shivering, all will be well soon enough. In my experience, if you let if get worse (lower core temperature) and shivering stops, this is real trouble. If I start to shiver violently, I'm stopping and the bag and/or tent comes out
    To extend the glycogen discussion, as someone with hypothermia descends trough the finals stages of hypothermia, their gut shuts down, by this time the hiker is long past the point of being able to rescue themselves. The only way of getting glycogen into the body in the field is warm liquid loaded with glycogen. S&R folks in the whites carry hot jello and if the hiker able to swallow they pour it into them. The gut lining can absorb it with the gut shutdown.

    The one time I and a friend had mild hypothermia we self rescued by getting in our sleeping bags and heating up every bit of food in our packs. I expect we would have been in far worse shape without a source of heat. I also got borderline mild hypothermia on day on the AT hiking in the pouring rain for 4 hours in 50 degree weather. We were shivering and luckily came upon a shelter and got a pot of soup going (I used to carry a Lipton Noddle Soup mix pack for emergencies). 20 minutes and we were good to go.

  19. #39
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    On the Colorado Trail in summer, I got chilled in a thunderstorm and apparently borderline hypothermic (I didnít realize it but hikers I encountered asked me if I was Ok - I must have looked bad). I set up my tent, got into my sleeping bag and had a hot meal. And I was fine in an hour. I think the hot food probably helped physically, but it 100% helped mentally and emotionally. I felt better as I started eating.

    If stoveless, at least have the ability to make an emergency fire.

  20. #40
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    http://www.woodgaz-stove.com/starlyte-stove.php

    I've switched to this and a small bottle to carry fuel in. I'm only boiling water and using a two cup mug for the water.

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