Going stoveless doesn't necessarily reduce carried weight or volume as many of the foods then selected will have inherently high water content (and weight) and also may not pack down as well as foods that reconstitute with hot water. I think it's more a convenience, logistics, and dietary decision than a pack weight and volume one.
"That's the thing about possum innards - they's just as good the second day." - Jed Clampett
The general store at Fontana Village is usually stocked pretty good with hiker food. Provided it's still operating. In theory they should be open, but with COVID that might not be the case this year. Or send a package to the PO there. Gatlinburg is not a great resupply stop unless your spending the night there. The grocery store is way outside of town. The trolley will get you there, but it takes over an hour one way. I spent pretty much half a day getting there and back.
The weather in the GSMNP can still be iffy in early May. Last time I hiked through there that time of year it rained for 5 days...
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[QUOTE=Tipi Walter;2281008]I pulled an 18 day no stove trip back in April 2015 and it doesn't work for me.
Managing Discomfort and a stove increases my comfort levels.
This sums up long distance hiking.
I think it's not a safety issue. In cold emergencies, a hot drink is helpful, administered by a rescuer, and is pretty far down on the priority list. Always concentrate on shelter and dry insulation first.
Of course it's best to not get cold in the first place. Get out of weather your clothing and experience can't handle, in your shelter or in town, before it becomes a safety issue.
I once worked up the number of calories available in a cup of warm water, when heated 40F above body temperature (the warmest you can drink without causing pain or doing damage). A Snickers bar contains more caloric energy, and you don't have to futz with a stove when it's wet and cold out. Getting in a dry sleeping bag and eating is the easier thing to do. Having a caring partner (or rescuer) serve you the hot drink while you're in your shelter is a different story.
"Throw a loaf of bread and a pound of tea in an old sack and jump over the back fence." John Muir on expedition planning
You're absolutely right. I can carry an overall lighter food load if I bring a stove---because dehydrated foods are extremely light---since the water you need to reconstitute them is not in your pack but instead found along the trail and therefore not carried. This makes a real difference on long trips w/o resupply.
In fact, a person could carry no "snackables" (no-cook foods) on a trip and only carry cookable dehydrated meals in bulk and his food load would be very light---even with 15 days worth of meals (two cooked meals per day).
Of course most of us don't have the discipline to do such a thing as we desire both our hot meals and our snackables like raisins and granola bars and peanut/nut butters and walnuts and honey and tahini and pringles and corn chips and pemmican and breads ETCETC. (Like bread contains approx 30 grams water per 100 grams of bread).
Another vital purpose of a stove is to melt snow and keep water thawed on winter trips when temps dip to 0F or below.
Last edited by Tipi Walter; 02-13-2021 at 11:57.
Stove also adds a means of water purification when your Sawyer squeeze clogs up. From personal experience...
no. not a safety issue at all
While the calories may be true, it's not as simple as that. When the body's core is already low, adding something cold or even frozen (which cold food would typically be), has to initially be brought up to body temperature before any calories from it can be accounted for. This is the hitting you when you're down aspect of eating cold food in such conditions, getting worse before it can get better. Hot water would serve to help get the body towards a good temperature and additional hydration and would seem, within reason, to be a small start in the right direction.
Thank you. No stove for me.
A few of my reasons in case anyone is interested.
1. Added space and weight in an UL setup
2. Excessive complexity of a stove detracts overall experience for me
3. Hate cooking, hate cleanup
4. Crouching will kill my knees and neck. No fun for sure.
5. Most of the food I eat does not require a stove, anyway
6. 50-70% of my daily calories normally come from fats. It is doubtful by my calculations that any ramen, couscous, MH, pasta packs can not come close to the density of my normal diet. Ketogenic diets are well beyond the scope of this Post/thread, but will say an adapted hiker needs far fewer calories intake than one relying upon carbohydrates. I simply have no need to rehydrate food stuffs because the are not part of my diet. I know this makes no sense to anyone but explaining in case it helps understand why I don't have much need for a stove, other than to warm up tea. If I develop a taste for Ramen, I can always procure a soaking tub.
7. I simply would not use a stove often and since there seems no compelling reason to take one, I will leave it behind.
Thanks for all the input to everyone.
"Throw a loaf of bread and a pound of tea in an old sack and jump over the back fence." John Muir on expedition planning
"Throw a loaf of bread and a pound of tea in an old sack and jump over the back fence." John Muir on expedition planning
Allowing glycogen to completely deplete or to become dehydrated by not constantly grazing while moving all day is up there with drenching yourself with sweat in cold conditions. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
If one has glycogen, some anaerobic movement inside the sleeping bag will generate significant heat but gentle activity or if one is bonked so to speak, there isn't as much heat generated from aerobic energy production. Shivering violently is a fine example of anaerobic heat generation. Personally, if I did make the mistake of getting very cold or wet. I want to have my dry clothing on and into my bag. If I am still shivering, all will be well soon enough. In my experience, if you let if get worse (lower core temperature) and shivering stops, this is real trouble. If I start to shiver violently, I'm stopping and the bag and/or tent comes out
To extend the glycogen discussion, as someone with hypothermia descends trough the finals stages of hypothermia, their gut shuts down, by this time the hiker is long past the point of being able to rescue themselves. The only way of getting glycogen into the body in the field is warm liquid loaded with glycogen. S&R folks in the whites carry hot jello and if the hiker able to swallow they pour it into them. The gut lining can absorb it with the gut shutdown.
The one time I and a friend had mild hypothermia we self rescued by getting in our sleeping bags and heating up every bit of food in our packs. I expect we would have been in far worse shape without a source of heat. I also got borderline mild hypothermia on day on the AT hiking in the pouring rain for 4 hours in 50 degree weather. We were shivering and luckily came upon a shelter and got a pot of soup going (I used to carry a Lipton Noddle Soup mix pack for emergencies). 20 minutes and we were good to go.
On the Colorado Trail in summer, I got chilled in a thunderstorm and apparently borderline hypothermic (I didn’t realize it but hikers I encountered asked me if I was Ok - I must have looked bad). I set up my tent, got into my sleeping bag and had a hot meal. And I was fine in an hour. I think the hot food probably helped physically, but it 100% helped mentally and emotionally. I felt better as I started eating.
If stoveless, at least have the ability to make an emergency fire.
http://www.woodgaz-stove.com/starlyte-stove.php
I've switched to this and a small bottle to carry fuel in. I'm only boiling water and using a two cup mug for the water.