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  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by nsherry61 View Post
    Wow. Thanks for that. I never thought to consider it outside of alcohols' lower energy density than other hydrocarbon fuels we use.

    Clean burning, hell, lighter weight and drinkable. I'm going ethanol all the way.
    That will save me enough weight I don't have to drill out my 1/2 toothbrush like I do when I carry methanol.
    LOL well it really is noticeable.

    On a trip to North Cascades a couple of years ago I had to purchase Heet locally, of course due to air travel, instead of the Klean-Strip DA ('marine fuel' which is a methanol/ethanol blend) that I normally use. Heet is essentially pure methanol and I noticed, sure enough, that I needed more of it to boil water even at somewhat higher elevations (3000-6000ft) than I do locally (typically 500-1200ft) with a higher boiling point. I wasn't being particularly careful measuring it out and darn near ran out of the 12oz bottle even though it was only a 4-night trip. Lesson learned.

  2. #122
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    And just to clarify, ethanol generally has a very sooty burn, especially if the flame-to-pot distance is inadequate, which leads to more 'quenching' (incomplete combustion).

  3. #123

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    Shivering endurance. Much depends on available energy substrates although the best ratio of carbs, fats, protein isn't quite to clear. 400 calories per hour for moderate shivering. So, eat.

    https://journals.physiology.org/doi/...iol.01088.2005

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big_Old_Dog View Post
    Shivering endurance. Much depends on available energy substrates although the best ratio of carbs, fats, protein isn't quite to clear. 400 calories per hour for moderate shivering. So, eat.
    https://journals.physiology.org/doi/...iol.01088.2005
    Heat those 400 calories up to 125 degrees first, then eat and shivering stops...... Yes, I remember what you said

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmoulder View Post
    And just to clarify, ethanol generally has a very sooty burn, especially if the flame-to-pot distance is inadequate, which leads to more 'quenching' (incomplete combustion).
    This is interesting and doesn't jive with my recollections. Denatured alcohol is ethanol treated to make it poisonous. And denatured alcohol burns pretty clean as I recall. Also, in years of working in biology labs, we did a lot of burning of ethanol for instrument sterilization, and I don't ever recall it burning anything other than very clean. Finally, in playing/experimenting with alcohol stoves and fuel in years past, I'd be surprised if I didn't play with some Everclear. I don't ever recall it being sooty either.

    Now, on the other hand, isopropyl/rubbing alcohol is very sooty and dirty even at higher purity levels (90%) and also has a higher energy density.
    Is it time to head to the liquor store to start testing stoves and stove fuel in my kitchen again? I know Bacardi 151 seems to burn cleanly when you use it to melt the sugar on the rim of a Spanish Coffee cup.
    Is there a chance you are getting ethanol and isopropyl alcohol confused regarding sootiness?
    I'm not lost. I'm exploring.

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by nsherry61 View Post
    This is interesting and doesn't jive with my recollections. Denatured alcohol is ethanol treated to make it poisonous. And denatured alcohol burns pretty clean as I recall. Also, in years of working in biology labs, we did a lot of burning of ethanol for instrument sterilization, and I don't ever recall it burning anything other than very clean. Finally, in playing/experimenting with alcohol stoves and fuel in years past, I'd be surprised if I didn't play with some Everclear. I don't ever recall it being sooty either.

    Now, on the other hand, isopropyl/rubbing alcohol is very sooty and dirty even at higher purity levels (90%) and also has a higher energy density.
    Is it time to head to the liquor store to start testing stoves and stove fuel in my kitchen again? I know Bacardi 151 seems to burn cleanly when you use it to melt the sugar on the rim of a Spanish Coffee cup.
    Is there a chance you are getting ethanol and isopropyl alcohol confused regarding sootiness?
    My experience is with Klean-Strip 'Green' which is ~90% ethanol and I was shocked at how sooty it was, especially after reading other folks' reports that it burned cleanly, and it also popped and produced uneven-burning yellow flames.

    I have not experimented with Everclear or rum. I did try 91% isopropyl at some point and it was awful, although I remember that Jon Fong at Flat Cat Stoves experimented with 'tuning' a setup to run well on rubbing alcohol.

    EDIT: to correct name... FLAT cat gear and link to it.
    Last edited by cmoulder; 02-19-2021 at 12:54.

  7. #127

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    Quote Originally Posted by cmoulder View Post
    My experience is with Klean-Strip 'Green' which is ~90% ethanol and I was shocked at how sooty it was, especially after reading other folks' reports that it burned cleanly, and it also popped and produced uneven-burning yellow flames.

    I have not experimented with Everclear or rum. I did try 91% isopropyl at some point and it was awful, although I remember that Jon Fong at Fat Cat Stoves experimented with 'tuning' a setup to run well on rubbing alcohol.
    One problem with drinkable alcohol (rum) is the proof. 200 Proof equals 100% alcohol. The remaining percentages are water or water based ingredients. Bacardi 151 is ~75% alcohol

  8. #128

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    I get denatured alcohol from ACE Hardware and it has always worked just fine for me.Yellow HEET is said to work also.

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmoulder View Post
    My experience is with Klean-Strip 'Green' which is ~90% ethanol and I was shocked at how sooty it was, especially after reading other folks' reports that it burned cleanly, and it also popped and produced uneven-burning yellow flames. . .
    Quote Originally Posted by Five Tango View Post
    I get denatured alcohol from ACE Hardware and it has always worked just fine for me.Yellow HEET is said to work also.
    It sounds like maybe that Klean-Strip 'Green' may has some additives contributing to dirty burning?

    Quote Originally Posted by AsoloBootsSuk View Post
    One problem with drinkable alcohol (rum) is the proof. 200 Proof equals 100% alcohol. The remaining percentages are water or water based ingredients. Bacardi 151 is ~75% alcohol
    Trust me, higher proof (>100 proof) drinkable alcohols burn just fine. Good point about the 151 though . . . If ethanol has 25% higher energy density than methanol, then Bacardi 151 (75% ethanol) should have close to the same energy density as yellow Heat (100% methanol). So, I don't need to buy yellow Heat as stove fuel any more! Thanks!
    I'm not lost. I'm exploring.

  10. #130
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    Sounds like yer gunna be a happy camper.

  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by AsoloBootsSuk View Post
    One problem with drinkable alcohol (rum) is the proof. 200 Proof equals 100% alcohol. The remaining percentages are water or water based ingredients. Bacardi 151 is ~75% alcohol
    That might not be so bad because I think I've read that some tests show better performance with isopropyl by adding water. However, I'll leave it for you or others to google because I've simply had zero interest in investigating isopropyl as a fuel. I'm sure that if I lived in a country where iso- was the most common stuff available I'd be singing a different tune!

    However, I can say the same for Kerosene and XGK stoves. Back in ye olde dayes I changed out the jet and used kero exactly once. It burns really hot, and although I'm usually not all that sensitive to smells (I'm one of those sick puppies that kinda likes the smell of Esbit ) I could not abide the stanky mess that accompanies kero.

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    (I'm one of those sick puppies that kinda likes the smell of Esbit )
    You are in the first stage of hypothermia if you like that smell

    I dislike the smell but like the btu's it has.

  13. #133

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    Quote Originally Posted by zelph View Post
    You are in the first stage of hypothermia if you like that smell

    I dislike the smell but like the btu's it has.
    I went parasailing out of Ocean City MD once. It was a hot and muggy day, the harbor area smelled like dead fish and diesel fumes. Several people got sick. The fist time I used an Esbit, I had deja'vu

  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by AsoloBootsSuk View Post
    . . . smelled like dead fish and diesel fumes. . . The fist time I used an Esbit, I had deja'vu
    Fantastic description!
    I'm not lost. I'm exploring.

  15. #135
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    Shortly after I moved into my current apartment in September I started to notice a fishy gross smell in my hallway. It so happens that my hallway is adjacent to the trash room on my floor. I was convinced that the smell was coming from some crack in the wall between my hallway and the trash chutes and it drove me nuts. A few weeks later I was unpacking and, sure enough, I had some Esbit packets in a box in a closet in that hallway. I don't know why, but the Esbit did not stink like this when I bought it a few years ago. I don't use Esbit for cooking. I bought it to take with me on a winter trip in case I had to make an emergency fire.

  16. #136
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    Ah, as usual there's no love for Esbit but they're still the undisputed UL champ... 1oz per day!!

    And many times there's some left over. In mild conditions (i.e. not too windy, water not too cold) a 14g tab boils 2 cups with fuel left over, to which I can add a 5g tab and boil 2 more cups... basically 19g per day.

    I have a setup that will boil 3 cups with one 14g tab but I need only 2 cups, so the lighter stove/pot combo is a side benefit.

  17. #137
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    [QUOTE=cmoulder;2281630]Ah, as usual there's no love for Esbit but they're still the undisputed UL champ... 1oz per day!!

    I’m a user. It’s just so easy.

    thom

  18. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheyou View Post

    I’m a user. It’s just so easy.

    thom
    All the hate leaves more for you and me, bruddah.

  19. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmoulder View Post
    Ah, as usual there's no love for Esbit but they're still the undisputed UL champ... 1oz per day!!

    And many times there's some left over. In mild conditions (i.e. not too windy, water not too cold) a 14g tab boils 2 cups with fuel left over, to which I can add a 5g tab and boil 2 more cups... basically 19g per day.

    I have a setup that will boil 3 cups with one 14g tab but I need only 2 cups, so the lighter stove/pot combo is a side benefit.
    Do you use a BGET?

  20. #140

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    Quote Originally Posted by cmoulder View Post
    My experience is with Klean-Strip 'Green' which is ~90% ethanol and I was shocked at how sooty it was, especially after reading other folks' reports that it burned cleanly, and it also popped and produced uneven-burning yellow flames.

    I have not experimented with Everclear or rum. I did try 91% isopropyl at some point and it was awful, although I remember that Jon Fong at Flat Cat Stoves experimented with 'tuning' a setup to run well on rubbing alcohol.

    EDIT: to correct name... FLAT cat gear and link to it.
    We offer the Multi-Fuel Stove (formerly ISO-Clean) that was designed to burn isopropyl alcohol) without generating soot. It will also burn other fuels such as dentaured alcohol, gels, Sterno and Esbit. Best regards.
    Here it a video of our latest revision - https://youtu.be/Niw-TCoCaHA

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