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  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by CalebJ View Post
    'Technically it is down'? What??
    Yes.

    Yak down is a uniquely Tibetan product
    Yaks live at very high elevations in the Himalayas. They have three layers to their coat. When the innermost down layer sheds, it is collected by locals and sold for clothing yarns. This inner layer is down. It is hollow core and around 16–20 microns, not quite as fine as cashmere but cashmere has poor tensile strength whereas Yak has much higher tensile but I believe a little lower than unprocessed merino (I could be wrong). Since this inner layer has a hollow core, it will absorb very little water (unlike cotton).....without going into thermodynamics, this is good. Basically, these will mostly be worn while sleeping and then on cold mornings. I would wear them in drizzle but if cold rain.... I would have this Yak leggings on and goretex over them, I am confident weather will not be an issue.

    The biggest benefit? It absorbs no odor. None.

    https://www.reywafibers.com/blog/dis...0merino%20wool.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yak_fiber

  2. #22

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    Okay...

    That the innermost layer is occasionally referred to as 'down fiber', etc doesn't make it remotely the same as 'down' in the context of any conversation that you'd have about insulation. That's just silly. If you're here talking about sleeping bags, clothing, etc and use the word 'down', it's very obviously a reference to the fluffy plumage underneath bird feathers.

  3. #23

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    You have stated being new to backpacking per se, which like other pursuits has its own terminology, phrases and twisted word use, akin to cycling terms like "Granny Gears", or "wheel sucking". The phrase "Stupid side of light" is common in backpacking circles, not a personal slight. The key to that is the last part of the sentence "if you have ever heard of that". The "stupid side of light" generally refers to becoming myopically stuck on weight reduction to the point some gear is left home that will likely be needed later. For example, not bringing rain gear to reduce weight or carrying a spare battery charger while not carrying a light stove might fit into that category.

    As to loose dogs, trekking poles will typically keep a dog at bay without the need to support the weight and keeping track of a small can of pepper spray. When threatened by a dog, I prefer to keep it at bay with my poles as it does not know better. Then if you carry dog spray you can consider using it on the owners who should.

  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Traveler View Post
    You have stated being new to backpacking per se, which like other pursuits has its own terminology, phrases and twisted word use, akin to cycling terms like "Granny Gears", or "wheel sucking". The phrase "Stupid side of light" is common in backpacking circles, not a personal slight. The key to that is the last part of the sentence "if you have ever heard of that". The "stupid side of light" generally refers to becoming myopically stuck on weight reduction to the point some gear is left home that will likely be needed later. For example, not bringing rain gear to reduce weight or carrying a spare battery charger while not carrying a light stove might fit into that category.

    As to loose dogs, trekking poles will typically keep a dog at bay without the need to support the weight and keeping track of a small can of pepper spray. When threatened by a dog, I prefer to keep it at bay with my poles as it does not know better. Then if you carry dog spray you can consider using it on the owners who should.
    I actually used that term in my post, so, I am well aware of its meaning and usage. I had gone into pretty great lengths to explain what temperatures and what clothing I would wear at those temperatures. I also listed my understanding of what temperatures I should expect. There is certainly stupid light but probably much more rare than stupid heavy? I wonder how often they add weight vs take weight off at Neels Gap shakedowns? Like never? If someone has posted, "Look, I have had 10F in May approaching Clingmans Dome", I would sit up and listen. But to say, "I was cold" is meaningless. From my perspective, I have too much gear. I listened and have shaved 9 oz thus far and am happy about that.

    In my teens/twenties, I had backpacked up to 30 days total in length in late May in the San Juans. Completely off trail with some climbing....actually there was no trail, it was all postholing or roped up with iceaxes on crust. I have hiked my whole like but nothing like you all. I did some overnights in the Alps and 3-5 trips. Not a lot. But, I have bike packed and bike toured Solo all over the world for months on end in far, far more remote and inhospitable conditions than the AT, which I consider a highway on the edge of civilization, GSMNP, Whites, and 100 mile Wilderness excepted. There are people everywhere on the AT, Search and Rescue, Rangers, Trail Runners. My first goretex clothing was 40 years ago. I have probably 4 tents, four sleeping bags, three or four stoves, etc. I gave my old framed pack away in maybe 1990 and in recent years, just used a relatively inexpensive rucksack. I like the simplicity of a rucksack which is why I went for the Zpacks Nero and I love that pack.

    One of the vibes I have picked up about thru hikers, not so much here on WB, but more on Reddit and those darned youtubers, they somehow think they are special or unique and entitled. The attitude from my perspective seems very much condescending and generally not helpful at all. I very much appreciate two very helpful posters in this thread. Maybe I simply do not suffer fools lightly. The two posts in response to mine reek of that condescension. Those two posts were visceral reactions. This is not semantics. This isn't that I do not know the lingo.

    One of the best pieces of advice I got has been here (Malto?) was to get a balance board. Man! That helped make my lower legs and ankles stronger. Amazing. Visible muscle growth. I never would have come up with this on my own. Like the water tablets. I own aquamira, I never would have thought not to use it.

  5. #25

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    I decided to leave the dog spray and other protection home. I have taken your advice and others.

    I hope not to regret it.

    I have been "nipped" twice, bit once and have had to fight off three dogs at once (one was a pit) and multiple other times. Three with a pit was terrifying to be frank. It was nearly 1 am and they wanted to eat me. This garbage often happens down South (NC, SC, TN, KY, FL, GA) and although I know it is the owners fault, it does not help with the issue at hand. Last summer a large GSD off leash came at me with head down, hairs on neck raised, tail up but not wagging, looking right at my eyes, and not barking-this would have been the time to have the spray. It seems pretty rare for others on trail to have their dog on leash and exceedingly rare for dogs to be properly trained. I can count that on my hand the number of well trained dogs. I very often come across the loose dog issue hunting. If they bit me, I would shoot them immediately. Very sad but this is akin to habituated bears. It is the fault of humans. How often will I see loose, unfriendly dogs on the AT? I don't know. I decided to take the advice.

  6. #26

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    Forgot to mention WRT to dogs, I have had to deal with this issues hundreds of times on a bike. Water sprayed at them is 50/50 at best. Rescue whistle is at least 70% effective. I only had to spray once and it worked. I dismount the bike and deal with it. I walk slowly and try to keep my bike between me and it. Same approach is my plan with poles but the poles provide less of a barrier. Once you get away from them or their territory, they give up. Spray is a last resort.

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by CalebJ View Post
    Okay...

    That the innermost layer is occasionally referred to as 'down fiber', etc doesn't make it remotely the same as 'down' in the context of any conversation that you'd have about insulation. That's just silly. If you're here talking about sleeping bags, clothing, etc and use the word 'down', it's very obviously a reference to the fluffy plumage underneath bird feathers.
    Ok. I tried to educate you. It is always referred to as down and it has very unique characteristics, which is what is important. I took a lot of time explaining those characteristics but you obviously do not want to learn. Down is not unique to ducks or geese.

    Can you please tell me how your response is helpful? Does it answer any of my (unanswered) questions?

    I wrote about wool leggings. This is exactly what I wrote. I am not sure where the "down" came from but I responded to the question.

    I intend to hike in rowing/cycling shorts and light tee shirt if temps are 50+ w/o much wind. 35-50F, I would add my 1/4 zipper baselayer. I would also sleep in this shirt if temps are below 35F. I'd hike additionally with wool leggings if under 40F. If raining hard and under 55F, both jacket and rain pants. I am on the fence whether I need waterproof covers over thin wool gloves. I will hike thru any rain but will stop for lightning. Cold wind? Rain jacket over. I have a puffy just in case it gets really, really cold but I cannot imagine my rain jacket over my base layers not to be sufficient down to the 20's hiking and that is very unlikely in early May during the day. I expect to enter GSMNP around May 1 and the record low for May is 17F but it seems 25-30F in early May at night is pretty common. I think keeping the puffy initially makes sense? Maybe ship it home after the Smokies? I usually like to have one layer of clothing more than I think is necessary, so, keeping the puffy fits with my way of thinking. I know if I posted on ultralight, they would right up tell me I had too much clothing.

  8. #28
    Some days, it's not worth chewing through the restraints.
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    I've looked at your list a few times over, and now that I know what the yak pants are, I can't see much of significance to drop... nothing that adds up to a pound, anyway. The only thing I'd consider adding to the drop list is the stainless steel food bag - but that's probably worth it's weight if you're stuck in a GSMNP shelter. I personally take an umbrella and forego rain pants, but that's a trade. Otherwise, you've clearly got the experience to know what works for you.

    I think the original list had a container for soaking food - I don't see that on the revised list.

    And if you're a dog magnet, I hope you don't regret dropping the dog defense, too. I think dogs are tied with ticks on my apprehension scale.

  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Big_Old_Dog View Post
    ....One of the vibes I have picked up about thru hikers, not so much here on WB, but more on Reddit and those darned youtubers, they somehow think they are special or unique and entitled. The attitude from my perspective seems very much condescending and generally not helpful at all. I very much appreciate two very helpful posters in this thread. Maybe I simply do not suffer fools lightly. The two posts in response to mine reek of that condescension. Those two posts were visceral reactions. This is not semantics. This isn't that I do not know the lingo.
    I've seen similar traits with cyclists. Good luck with your trip!

  10. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Traveler View Post
    I've seen similar traits with cyclists. Good luck with your trip!
    Ok, thank you.

    I don't see any point for me to continue. I won't be responding to any additional questions. GL to all.

  11. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by Big_Old_Dog View Post
    I decided to leave the dog spray and other protection home. I have taken your advice and others.

    I hope not to regret it.

    I have been "nipped" twice, bit once and have had to fight off three dogs at once (one was a pit) and multiple other times. Three with a pit was terrifying to be frank. It was nearly 1 am and they wanted to eat me. This garbage often happens down South (NC, SC, TN, KY, FL, GA) and although I know it is the owners fault, it does not help with the issue at hand. Last summer a large GSD off leash came at me with head down, hairs on neck raised, tail up but not wagging, looking right at my eyes, and not barking-this would have been the time to have the spray. It seems pretty rare for others on trail to have their dog on leash and exceedingly rare for dogs to be properly trained. I can count that on my hand the number of well trained dogs. I very often come across the loose dog issue hunting. If they bit me, I would shoot them immediately. Very sad but this is akin to habituated bears. It is the fault of humans. How often will I see loose, unfriendly dogs on the AT? I don't know. I decided to take the advice.
    Cycling I always carry dog spray. There's much more exposure to dogs, particularly in rural areas where they are more often loose. You ride dozens of miles past numerous dwellings. Your potential exposure rate on the trail is conceivably hundreds times less. Shoot on a regular riding route, you probably know 1-5 houses where dogs are going to chase you. Much more chance of a dog being loose in a neighborhood vs on trail. Enormously higher residential population of dogs living in houses than dogs out on the trail as well. Many more dozens of people walking their dogs in town than on trail. I will say, people are more inclined to let their dogs run loose on the trail though. When people report being bit here, they are understandably unhappy about it, but the probability involved with how often that happens is distorted by self-reporting and not having a good underlying baseline of the times they did not get bit. I don't bring dog spray on the trail. But not a dog thread, just some observations given the OP's cycling background.
    "Sleepy alligator in the noonday sun
    Sleepin by the river just like he usually done
    Call for his whisky
    He can call for his tea
    Call all he wanta but he can't call me..."
    Robert Hunter & Ron McKernan

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  12. #32

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    One other thing, we'll handle the moderation. I'd have thought that maybe you all noticed I was posting to the thread but I guess not. Stupid light is kind of borderline, something you can get away with among friends maybe, perhaps less so with people you don't really know. Honestly, his packing list does not warrant it. He's not running some super ultralight kit with no experience to boot. That's a reasonable clothing list. I also sense the personality clash that is going on here. Are you responding because you have an issue with the poster or are you responding because you would like to help the person in a positive way? I don't need an answer but I don't want to see it carry into other threads.

    Thank you.
    "Sleepy alligator in the noonday sun
    Sleepin by the river just like he usually done
    Call for his whisky
    He can call for his tea
    Call all he wanta but he can't call me..."
    Robert Hunter & Ron McKernan

    Whiteblaze.net User Agreement.

  13. #33
    Registered User JNI64's Avatar
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    Just my 2 cents about the "down" controversy.
    I bought some zpacks possum "down " fur gloves.
    Just like the yak hairs the New Zealand possum hairs are hollow.
    Making them water resistant and extra warm.
    Now these aren't bird feathers but they're considered possum down fur.

    I ain't on nobody's side and I find it kinda confusing myself.

  14. #34

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    At least in that case, the word 'possum' is always used together with down. Every effort was made to avoid confusion.

  15. #35
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    Better to hike with down pants than with pants down!

  16. #36
    Leonidas
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    Just a note in case the OP is still checking and will take the advice of a "YouTuber". In the past 5 years, I can recall 2-3 times where a cold snap has hit mid-May and people ended up miserably cold on the AT because they either sent gear home or didn't listen to advice on WhiteBlaze and went into the Smokies with insufficient warmth gear. I can't see your list but I would err on the side of warmth until you are past the Smokies minimum. Most say north of Damascus you should be fine but that has bit people in the butt the last few years.
    So personally, once it is the end of May, you should be good for milder temps.
    AT: 471 mi
    Benton MacKaye Trail '20
    Pinhoti Trail '18-19'

    @leonidasonthetrail https://www.youtube.com/c/LeonidasontheTrail

  17. #37
    Leonidas
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    Figured I would even throw a lighterpack that I will use this year for Damascus to Daleville in June. I run hotter than most so take that into consideration.
    https://lighterpack.com/r/46kqgl
    AT: 471 mi
    Benton MacKaye Trail '20
    Pinhoti Trail '18-19'

    @leonidasonthetrail https://www.youtube.com/c/LeonidasontheTrail

  18. #38

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    I have read every word of the thread.As far as I know,nobody addressed the OP's comment about water proof layer over thin gloves.FTR,I am neither a thru hiker nor a cyclist,just an old man with a backpack who does like warm dry hands.I won't comment about anyone else's weight load but I'd rather have it and not need it than the other way around as I seriously hate being cold at my age.

    In winter I have Sealskinz gloves and in warmer weather I will have my mitten covers I got from Lite Hart Gear which are all but weightless and get the job done.In summer it's not an issue but I will have something warm to change into like a lite fleece just in case.

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