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  1. #21
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    H2O** not house. Haha

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    They are also having a problem with this in Isle Royale NP. There it is some of the inland lakes that are a problem so you always have Lake Superior to fall back on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Durwood View Post
    I find this to be wildly irresponsible. I have to assume you've never dealt with waterborne parasitic issues.
    Agreed. That being said, we're not even dealing with parasites in this situation. We're dealing with extremely powerful toxins. Parasites are easy to deal with by comparison.
    I'm not lost. I'm exploring.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Durwood View Post
    Slapshot, I remember you fondly from NH section of AT in 2018. Good luck..
    Redbone (Bill)? is that you?https://tonysadventure.com/2019/07/carlo-col-shelter/
    Trail Name - Slapshot
    "One step at a time."
    Blog - www.tonysadventure.com

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by ldsailor View Post
    No buddy. I went by durwood. Tented at hexacuba when you stayed in shelter. Had beers with you at hikers welcome hostel then again at rattle river. I'll DM you if I can figure it out.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by JNI64 View Post
    Sawyer select s3.
    I was in a ultalight group lastnight on Facebook and a hiker wanted us to look at their lighterpack..TThe also said they were going to Island Royal so i looked at their filter then I told them their filter will not work they had the squeeze and other methods that wouldnt work. Then I told them what you recommended. So what you recommended they are actually going to aquire...
    My love for life is quit simple .i get uo in the moring and then i go to bed at night. What I do inbween is to occupy my time. Cary Grant

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by JNI64 View Post
    Sawyer select s3.
    How does a 0.1 Micron filter remove something 10 times smaller. Am I missing something?

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big_Old_Dog View Post
    How does a 0.1 Micron filter remove something 10 times smaller. Am I missing something?
    Lol yeah I don't know. I wish I could come on here and be all smart and cool and explain how it works, nope.

    I just knew that they existed in a series of 1,2 and 3 depending on the dangers of the water source. And thought to throw it out there as an option. And apparently that's what Sawyer suggested as well.

  9. #29
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    And since we are talking deadly toxins not some parasite that is going to make you sick I would do alot research into these things. But when you're concerned about pesticides, chemical etc these seem to be the thing to have.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big_Old_Dog View Post
    How does a 0.1 Micron filter remove something 10 times smaller. Am I missing something?
    From their web page:

    https://sawyer.com/products/select-filter-and-purifier/


    "The Foam Adsorption Technology used in these systems was developed with a partnership with Foamulations LLC to now be able to safely remove contaminants like heavy metals, chemicals, pesticides, and viruses while also improving taste and odor. Adsorption filtration is the process in which molecules adhere to the surface of the adsorbent foam membrane. This highly advanced filtration and purification process, combined with our 0.1 micron absolute filter will ensure that any and all particulate or pathogens above 0.1 microns are filtered out of your water, including bacteria, protozoa, cysts, dirt and sediment."

  11. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by Big_Old_Dog View Post
    RO is the only way that I know to remove the toxins.
    This,,,, Not sure if there are any suitable RO units,,, would be alot of work doing it with a hand pump, takes alot of pressure.

  12. #32

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    I suppose it is possible the Sawyer S3 carbon filter would work......but I cannot find Sawyer making the claim to remove the toxins. So, who knows

  13. #33
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    Not carbon magic foam! And you have to squeeze before using for a couple minutes they say. Even works for mercury amazing!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Big_Old_Dog View Post
    I suppose it is possible the Sawyer S3 carbon filter would work......but I cannot find Sawyer making the claim to remove the toxins. So, who knows
    A truer statement could not be made regarding this.

    Quote Originally Posted by JNI64 View Post
    Not carbon magic foam! And you have to squeeze before using for a couple minutes they say. Even works for mercury amazing!
    Until any particular filter system is tested against this/these specific toxins, there is no way to generalize responsibly. Filtration matrices that take out heavy metals are completely different from ones that remove organic compounds, like most toxins. And, one matrix, gel, or foam that is engineered to remove one type of organic molecule may have little or no effect on another. Finally, even if something as "broad spectrum" as activated charcoal works against these toxins, without knowing the starting concentration of the toxin in the source water, we would have no idea how much water we could filter before the filter was essentially full and no longer doing an adequate job.

    In the end, unless it is already a life and death situation, this is one to walk away from until or unless some professional labs take on testing and developing safe or even relatively safe options specific to this problem. I believe they are even struggling to manage these cyanotoxin outbreaks for commercial applications where portability and money don't come into play as much as they generally do with us in this community.
    I'm not lost. I'm exploring.

  15. #35

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    Well you could just carry beer. If you buy it in Utah it's very much like water no matter the brand.

  16. #36

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    This is an interesting discussion and made me think of running into Matt Graham a couple years ago in Zion. I was doing the "trans-Zion trek" and was all covered up in long pants, long sleeves, hiding from the sun, etc.. and Matt was only wearing shorts, sandals and not carrying any water bottle. When I met him we were 10 miles from the trailhead so I assume he was drinking freely from the creeks. Of course that's his backyard....so who knows.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by hobbs View Post
    I was in a ultalight group lastnight on Facebook and a hiker wanted us to look at their lighterpack..TThe also said they were going to Island Royal so i looked at their filter then I told them their filter will not work they had the squeeze and other methods that wouldnt work. Then I told them what you recommended. So what you recommended they are actually going to aquire...
    Thats cool thanks for spreading the news about these filters.
    They're certainly not ultralight or cheap but potentially life saving

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by JNI64 View Post
    Thats cool thanks for spreading the news about these filters.
    They're certainly not ultralight or cheap but potentially life saving
    OR NOT! Those filters sound great against a lot of things, BUT, those filters have NOT been well tested against the cyanotoxins found in Zion (or at least not that I am aware of or that has been posted in these forums). So there is no way of knowing how well they treat for them. And, unlike most water born pathogens like norovirus, cholera, cryptosporidium or giardia that make you sick and have reliable treatments to make you better, these cyanotoxins can kill you. And, unlike more common pollutants that these filters are designed around (like nitrates or heavy metals), they are not designed around these relatively rare, very small and highly toxic organic compounds. Yeah, they might work. Heck, they might work really well. BUT, I don't think it's particularly wise to volunteer as an unmonitored guinea pig.

    Please, don't be cavalier about this risk.

    I'm not just mouthing off about something I have little background in here. I have have worked with, cultured, and published papers on cyanobacteria. AND, if any of you recognize me from other posts, I'm generally the guy saying not to worry too much about filtering water all the time or worry to much about dangerous animals, etc. I think most people's fears of backcountry dangers are frankly, dangerously overblow. BUT, unlike those other moderate to insignificant dangers, this one has the potential to really kill you.
    I'm not lost. I'm exploring.

  19. #39
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    Heres a couple of Reviews on the S! and S2 filters by sawyer HTTP:// www.trailspace.com/ gear/sawyer/ select-s1
    http://www.trailspace.com/gear/sawyer/select-s2
    My love for life is quit simple .i get uo in the moring and then i go to bed at night. What I do inbween is to occupy my time. Cary Grant

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by hobbs View Post
    Heres a couple of Reviews on the S! and S2 filters by sawyer HTTP:// www.trailspace.com/ gear/sawyer/ select-s1
    http://www.trailspace.com/gear/sawyer/select-s2
    People, these filters are NOT certified to be safe against the cyanotoxins in Zion and likely other places!!

    Two additional big problems not already mentioned above:

    1) Even if it ultimately works, the time needed for effective removal of the toxins from the water by the reactive filter media (like activated charcoal) may be hours to days (https://uwspace.uwaterloo.ca/handle/10012/9392).

    2) The Sawyer filter treats the water in the chemical matrix and then afterwards filters out the large remaining particles as you squeeze the bottle. With regards to cyanotoxins, the filtering process of these Sawyer filters can break open otherwise intact cyanobacterial cells, releasing more toxin into the water as it is exiting the bottle effectively untreated.

    Please, please, just don't mess with this stuff at this point in time until more robust safety information is available regarding it.
    I'm not lost. I'm exploring.

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