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  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by hobbs View Post
    How many On this thread are Hunters? Heres a question ill poise to you.We pay for licenses and higher rates for our gear than backpackers. We do more for conservation than any hiker I have met very few hikers volunteer with clubs. Only thing backpackers do is take..They also complain that they may have to use a bear canister, Yet hunters have alot of rules they have to follow. I agree keep hikers out during hunting season. I brought this up on another forum do to the idiots flooding the trails. OH if you wonderd all my life I ve backpacked and hunted. IT surprises me when I look and backpackers lost the main thing Stewardship. BUt yet we pay more to do conservation. its also interesting that the mountain bike clubs want access to the PCT and their willing to do maintenace.
    I'm really struggling to see how this is related to the topic.

  2. #22
    Registered User hobbs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CalebJ View Post
    I'm really struggling to see how this is related to the topic.
    Caleb its simple I looked at some of the responss the biggest one that meets the criteria of tsker of a backpacker is Nsherry 61 response about bannig hikers in conservation areas.Point blank we pay to use the outdoors hunting backpackers dont pay squate or do any stewardship unless they volunteer in a club.In other words I respect more hunters then the backpackers I meet. Ask most NOBOS the principles of LNT see what you get for a response . Hunting ypou have to go through a hunter safety course..
    My love for life is quit simple .i get uo in the moring and then i go to bed at night. What I do inbween is to occupy my time. Cary Grant

  3. #23

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    This happened on the Weldon Spring Conservation Area. That's in Missouri (not NJ). Here is a brochure with some information for the Conservation Area. In it, it is stated "Hunters may not hunt on or within 100 feet of any trails, or roads open to vehicular traffic." Both news articles linked earlier say the hike was on the trail. There was a special turkey hunt on Missouri Conservation land.

    Hunting regulations for Missouri-Doesn't say that even hunters need to wear blaze orange for spring turkey hunting but it does elsewhere for example deer hunting. There is a specific regulation stated in fall turkey hunting "During all portions of the firearms deer hunting season, all persons hunting any game, and also adult mentors accompanying them, must wear a cap or hat and a shirt, vest, or coat of the color commonly known as hunter orange, which must be plainly visible from all sides. "

    Additional turkey hunting regulations specific to the Conservation Area. See Turkey-Spring (Mangaged Hunt)

    Methods
    Shotgun only. All other statewide turkey hunting methods apply.
    Last edited by Alligator; 05-11-2021 at 18:36. Reason: Added the fall turkey information.
    "Sleepy alligator in the noonday sun
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  4. #24

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    For the record,the WMA I like to hike and camp on requires a current hunting/fishing license for you to be out there whether you are hunting/fishing or not.So yes,I am paying my "fair share" like any hunter would be.
    Also,I have hunted a good bit in my youth but not on public lands partly because of fear of those who shoot at unidentified targets,i.e.,sound and motion.

    Also,sorry I started this thread as I was not intending to start something between those who hunt and those who don't.Just wanted to point out that you need to be seen "out there" 12 months out of the year lest some idiot thinks you are are wild game,shoots first,and says,"Oops,my bad" later.

  5. #25
    Registered User simon's Avatar
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    From Pennsylvania and yes the game commission purchases new land with license fees. Half of earning also come from gas, lumber and other such sources. I've hiked and hunted most of my sixty-six years. Now we have Sunday hunting too. So I don't think there is a right answer when it comes to who gets to do what. I do strongly believe that if you have a firearm of any kind you're responsible for knowing when you pull that trigger where the projectile is going!

  6. #26
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    Here is a list of states that allow turkey hunting with a rifle. Not sure if it is accurate, but it affirms that Missouri is one of them.

    https://omegaoutdoors.blog/rifle-turkey-hunting-table/

    Seeing one used to be a rare treat in Massachusetts. Now they are common sight in suburban backyards and just about everywhere. They block the road more often than snapping turtles.

  7. #27

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    Also many probably aren't aware that the majority (61%) of the budget for the Missouri Department of Conservation (see page 3) comes from a state 1/8 cent sales tax with only ~17% coming from permits.
    "Sleepy alligator in the noonday sun
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  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by rickb View Post
    Here is a list of states that allow turkey hunting with a rifle. Not sure if it is accurate, but it affirms that Missouri is one of them.

    https://omegaoutdoors.blog/rifle-turkey-hunting-table/

    Seeing one used to be a rare treat in Massachusetts. Now they are common sight in suburban backyards and just about everywhere. They block the road more often than snapping turtles.
    Dead link when you try to follow it for Missouri. On the mdc.mo.gov page, all it says for firearms are shotguns for turkey.
    "Sleepy alligator in the noonday sun
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  9. #29
    Registered User hobbs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alligator View Post
    Dead link when you try to follow it for Missouri. On the mdc.mo.gov page, all it says for firearms are shotguns for turkey.
    Alligator appreciate the articles you posted but it wont change my mind. Like i said hunters do more for conservation than any hiker..Why dont you get the numbers on how many join clubss and volunteer and also look up their average age. I like to see those satistics. I am just staying the obvious. Should have been called out years ago and they should have a mandatory LNT class...
    My love for life is quit simple .i get uo in the moring and then i go to bed at night. What I do inbween is to occupy my time. Cary Grant

  10. #30

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    What does how much each group pays have to do with this thread?

  11. #31
    ME => GA 19AT3 rickb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hobbs View Post
    Alligator appreciate the articles you posted but it wont change my mind. Like i said hunters do more for conservation than any hiker.
    Probably depends on the hiker :-)

    As for overall contributions to conservation, hunters are clearly forced to contribute a great deal of money in addition to that which they give freely.

    Not nearly as much as non hunters, however.

    At least according to this paper (and common sense).

    https://www.wyofile.com/wp-content/u...11/SMITH-1.pdf

    Probably more important things to worry about like the great primer shortage.

  12. #32
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    This.........
    While searching for that unknown edge in life, never forget to look home. For the greatest edge you can find in life is to stand in the protective shadow of those who love you.

  13. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by CalebJ View Post
    What does how much each group pays have to do with this thread?
    Not much of anything really, just a strawman argument and deflection from the hunter's responsibility to know what he was shooting at. Hiker may also be a hunter who knows right?

    Anyway here's the map of the 8,398 acre conservation area. Hunters are required to stay out of and not hunt into a 100 ft buffer either side of the trail. That's 200 ft wide with the trail in the middle. Two hundred feet is roughly 1/32 of a mile. Divide the one mile scale on the map into 32nds and pretty much the width of the line marking the trails is the exclusion zone. That leaves the vast majority open for hunting. You can hunt something all year long in Missouri, but in order to do so, you have to be able to tell the difference between species. That's a basic fundamental requirement. It's rather pointless to argue about hikers shouldn't be there because of volunteer hours and who paid for what. If this hunter couldn't identify a human on the trail he was supposed to be avoiding he'd sure have a hard time identifying another hunter dressed in camouflage like he was out in the woods.

    In other states you can also shoot animals year round or nearly so even right along the AT in places. It's completely understandable to expect hunters to be able to identify the difference between species that are not humans and humans because "hiker season" has a different meaning than what they may expect. Turkey...human. Human...squirrel. Skunk...hiker... ok I can smell the problem there but that wasn't the situation.
    "Sleepy alligator in the noonday sun
    Sleepin by the river just like he usually done
    Call for his whisky
    He can call for his tea
    Call all he wanta but he can't call me..."
    Robert Hunter & Ron McKernan

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  14. #34

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    Back in '88 Greg Lemond (3-time Tour de France winner) was shot by his brother in law who though he was a turkey. Came pretty close to dying due to blood loss, and might've if it weren't for his extreme level of physical fitness, doctors speculated at the time.
    UL, because nobody ever asks "How can I make my pack heavier?"

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big_Old_Dog View Post
    Like I said in an earlier post. Hikers off trail, not in blaze orange, letting dogs run loose. I have been harassed several times by hikers when hunting, this is against the law in my state. I never reported them but if I took a picture of them and license plates, the CO would have written a citation. There is a lot of hiking land. Little hunting land, which was mostly paid for by hunting permits. Hunting season is short. Safest way is to keep hikers out. In my experience, they don't follow rules and are generally against hunting. To me the solution is simple, no hiking on hunting land during hunting season.

    Accidents happen even if awareness of surroundings and targets. So, we can just disagree.
    Hikers generally hike on trails and the trails cannot be moved off hunting land during hunting season. The AT crosses some hunting land, but there's not a chance we're closing the AT due to hunting season and the mere suggestion is absurd. The AT is 2200 miles and it is not practical for a long distance hiker to keep up with hunting land boundaries and seasons of 14 different states. If you don't think you can distinguish a person from game correctly 100% of the time before taking a shot, then you shouldn't be hunting. Orange is a good idea, but only as extra safety. If you're shooting at something that moves because you don't see orange, you shouldn't be hunting.

    I'm a hiker and an occasional hunter. I am not against either.

  16. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by Big_Old_Dog View Post
    Also, we have plenty of hiking areas where hunting is not allowed vs very, very few areas where hunting is allowed.
    Hikers should stay out of conservation areas during hunting season or at least wear blaze orange.
    Though pubic land and waters used for hunting and fishing are well supported through State hunting and fishing licensing structures, they are not the only ones who contribute funds, time, and efforts to support these public lands. For example special license plates encourage financial participation through a broad cross section of the population. To claim no one outside of hunters do more to support public lands ignores the reality of the contributions of civic and volunteer groups who fund raise and maintain protection of these parcels of land, never mind maintain trails used by hikers and hunters alike. I don't find hunters to be any more or less involved in conservation and maintenance efforts than hikers overall. Volunteers tend to be a fairly broad mix that include hunters.

    While public lands are open to all who follow use regulations, there are pubic lands in NJ that are closed to hikers during hunting season/s, some close on specific days, others close down for extended blocks of time. Essentially these land areas prohibit non-hunters during specific times/dates. https://www.njhiking.com/hiking-nj-d...unting-season/. Conversely, some public lands are closed to hunting during these seasons. Being difficult to keep people out of large tracks of land, there is no shortage of non-hunters going into lands closed for hunter use, or hunters going into lands closed to hunting.

    NJ also subscribes to the PA standard for hunters and non-hunters on public land during posted hunting seasons. It's difficult to see if this is a regulation or a standard between States and what specific hunting season one is involved with. However, this standard is used rather broadly outside of the region so I suspect it is not black letter law. Unfortunately, not all hikers follow these suggestions, conversely not all hunters do either, which the end result over time can be an accident that raises awareness for a season or two before it degrades again until the next one.


    All hunters and non-hunters are required to wear at least 250 square inches of fluorescent orange material on the head, chest and back combined, or a fluorescent orange hat, from Nov. 15 to Dec. 15 (except on Sundays). The orange material must be visible from allangles (360 degrees)" (PA Game Land Regulations, November, 2020)

  17. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by FlyPaper View Post
    Hikers generally hike on trails and the trails cannot be moved off hunting land during hunting season. The AT crosses some hunting land, but there's not a chance we're closing the AT due to hunting season and the mere suggestion is absurd. The AT is 2200 miles and it is not practical for a long distance hiker to keep up with hunting land boundaries and seasons of 14 different states. If you don't think you can distinguish a person from game correctly 100% of the time before taking a shot, then you shouldn't be hunting. Orange is a good idea, but only as extra safety. If you're shooting at something that moves because you don't see orange, you shouldn't be hunting.

    I'm a hiker and an occasional hunter. I am not against either.
    Ditto! I would like to point out that in the case of turkeys it is only legal to harvest the male of the species.This means you would need positive identification not only that it's a bird but that it's a male bird.In order for that to happen you need to have a clear view of what you're shooting at.I just hope the injured hiker in Missouri pulls thru because from what I can tell it was a rifle shot to the chest.

    As far as hikers and hunters coexisting it shouldn't be that hard for hunters to get far enough off the trail for hikers to be a non issue,should it?

  18. #38
    Registered User hobbs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rickb View Post
    Here is a list of states that allow turkey hunting with a rifle. Not sure if it is accurate, but it affirms that Missouri is one of them.

    https://omegaoutdoors.blog/rifle-turkey-hunting-table/

    Seeing one used to be a rare treat in Massachusetts. Now they are common sight in suburban backyards and just about everywhere. They block the road more often than snapping turtles.
    I would suggest get a better resource to back your claim then one loaded with reference from Biased resources. Yes i looked up those .Atleast your giving me something to read and maybe change my mind...But better sources not ones that has a diversed interest in it.
    My love for life is quit simple .i get uo in the moring and then i go to bed at night. What I do inbween is to occupy my time. Cary Grant

  19. #39
    ME => GA 19AT3 rickb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hobbs View Post
    I would suggest get a better resource to back your claim then one loaded with reference from Biased resources. Yes i looked up those .Atleast your giving me something to read and maybe change my mind...But better sources not ones that has a diversed interest in it.
    I think you meant the the link I posted after that one. As Alligator pointed out my link to the rifle/shotgun table was flawed.

    https://www.wyofile.com/wp-content/u...11/SMITH-1.pdf

    Food for thought.
    Last edited by rickb; 05-12-2021 at 19:36.

  20. #40
    ME => GA 19AT3 rickb's Avatar
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    One thing sportsmen are always quick to point out is the big bucks generated by the Pittman-Robertson & Dingell-Johnson acts. Close to a billion dollars a year.

    One thing the article I linked did was to make an attempt to break out how much of that pot of gold was from hunters vs. other consumers. They were candid about the fact that made assumptions to do so.

    The sounded reasonable to me. At least in my circle, those buying .50 BMG are not doing so to hunt.

    Of course, I live in MA. YMMV.

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