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  1. #81
    Registered User scope's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hobbs View Post
    If you feel that way about public lands then we can bring the equestrians on the AT then.Their a group also Mountain bikers their a group and ass you stated this is public land...So your arguments kind of counter anything you say. BUT hey hike your own hike.BTW is a hiker kills another hiker whos fault is it and responcibility? curious your answer?
    Your perspective is overly simplistic. If I go with what youíre saying, everyone will have their own designated area to only hunt or hike or bike or ride horse, etc. Its always about management and like Iíve said, I have no issue with you saying the outdoors could be managed differently. Only issue is your either/or perspective that seems overly blamed UL of hikers for some reason. Guess youíre sore about all that money youíre paying to hunt?

    And your question is total bs, you know the answer, everyone does and no one has insinuated otherwise here.


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    "I wonder if anyone else has an ear so tuned and sharpened as I have, to detect the music, not of the spheres, but of earth, subtleties of major and minor chord that the wind strikes upon the tree branches. Have you ever heard the earth breathe... ?"
    - Kate Chopin

  2. #82

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    If conservation land has been bought and paid for by hunters, why isn't it fair that only hunters use that land for a few weeks out of the year.

    Never mind. Closed minds, here.

  3. #83

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    Quote Originally Posted by Big_Old_Dog View Post
    If conservation land has been bought and paid for by hunters, why isn't it fair that only hunters use that land for a few weeks out of the year.

    Never mind. Closed minds, here.
    Taxes on hunting equipment is only one of the sources of tax money for public land, not the sole source.It’s called public land, not hunting public land.
    I hunt, and hike, and believe the two can coexist.

  4. #84
    Registered User hobbs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gpburdelljr View Post
    Taxes on hunting equipment is only one of the sources of tax money for public land, not the sole source.It’s called public land, not hunting public land.
    I hunt, and hike, and believe the two can coexist.
    Agree they can coesist. The issue is the hikers do very little for their stake in it. TO be fair I am going to contact the clubs all of them and ask membership numbers. Then we can go from past to present of data. Heres an open question how many on this thread belong to a trail club? How many are members of the ATC? Members of ALDHA? Friends of Baxter? AMC?
    My love for life is quit simple .i get uo in the moring and then i go to bed at night. What I do inbween is to occupy my time. Cary Grant

  5. #85
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    Buy your own land, hunt your own property. If you can't afford to then use SHARED public land.

    To stomp your feet and declare who "deserves" primary usage of that land is foolish and elitist. Know your target and backdrop and be responsible.

    I'll continue hunting my own land and hiking where I am permitted to. The opinion that one deserves that land more than another is ridiculous.

  6. #86
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    I'm from a hunting family but the views expressed here are embarrassing. Not only missing the point of the thread but going many steps further to disparage hikers.

    Dumb, dumb, dumb.

  7. #87
    Registered User scope's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big_Old_Dog View Post
    If conservation land has been bought and paid for by hunters, why isn't it fair that only hunters use that land for a few weeks out of the year.

    Never mind. Closed minds, here.
    I certainly wouldnít mind that sort of restriction as long as there were still other places always open to hikers. Fact is that hunters bring balance to nature whereas hikers who donít follow LNT can get things out of balance.

    Remember always, balance is good, here included.


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    "I wonder if anyone else has an ear so tuned and sharpened as I have, to detect the music, not of the spheres, but of earth, subtleties of major and minor chord that the wind strikes upon the tree branches. Have you ever heard the earth breathe... ?"
    - Kate Chopin

  8. #88

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    Quote Originally Posted by scope View Post
    I certainly wouldn’t mind that sort of restriction as long as there were still other places always open to hikers. Fact is that hunters bring balance to nature whereas hikers who don’t follow LNT can get things out of balance.

    Remember always, balance is good, here included.


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    Not all hunters bring balance to nature. There are hunters that don’t follow reasonable rules, just like hikers. Both groups have bad actors.

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by gpburdelljr View Post
    Not all hunters bring balance to nature. There are hunters that don’t follow reasonable rules, just like hikers. Both groups have bad actors.
    I agree with this. Ever see a trashed out hunting camp? Illegally bagged carcass? Equally offensive and irresponsible.

    But I thought we began by talking about fools that shoot at anything that moves. We can argue who pays for more rights and which collective is better/worse on the land....
    An idiot that shoots a person then gets a backing from fellow hunters saying, "hikers don't belong here" seems to be where we've come to. As said before...SMH.

  10. #90
    Registered User scope's Avatar
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    Uh, guys, we jumped on Hobbs and company for generalizing and now youíre gonna do the same? Really?!?


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    "I wonder if anyone else has an ear so tuned and sharpened as I have, to detect the music, not of the spheres, but of earth, subtleties of major and minor chord that the wind strikes upon the tree branches. Have you ever heard the earth breathe... ?"
    - Kate Chopin

  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by scope View Post
    Uh, guys, we jumped on Hobbs and company for generalizing and now you’re gonna do the same? Really?!?


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    Nah. I'm all done with this one. Please be safe and kind to one another...

  12. #92
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    Scope Iam not generlizing when I say the trialclub members numbers are way farless than the amount of hikers that hike the trail . I started with that added into hunters pay to play...Give me 5 things hikers do for conservation? The only fee paid is 20 dollars backcountry fee to SMKNP why isnt their a fee at shenandoah? its self registration at the kiosks..Ill even give anyone a chance to answer if their a club member and start scounting on this thread. Guess what Ill get about 2 to 3 people maybe...That yes is a generalization cause I dont even think I d get that But I am willing to listen and I have also when someone posted a article I read it also looked at the sources in the article...So I am not mad just making a point.
    My love for life is quit simple .i get uo in the moring and then i go to bed at night. What I do inbween is to occupy my time. Cary Grant

  13. #93

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    What a dumpster fire...

    Can we just close this down?

  14. #94
    Registered User scope's Avatar
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    Indeed, give me 5 reasons it should continue, lol.


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    "I wonder if anyone else has an ear so tuned and sharpened as I have, to detect the music, not of the spheres, but of earth, subtleties of major and minor chord that the wind strikes upon the tree branches. Have you ever heard the earth breathe... ?"
    - Kate Chopin

  15. #95

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    Starting a dumpster fire was not my intent so I would like to move for closure.Thanks.

  16. #96

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    Quote Originally Posted by Five Tango View Post
    Starting a dumpster fire was not my intent so I would like to move for closure.Thanks.
    Not your fault. Could have been a good discussion.

  17. #97

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    Quote Originally Posted by hobbs View Post
    Agree they can coesist. The issue is the hikers do very little for their stake in it. TO be fair I am going to contact the clubs all of them and ask membership numbers. Then we can go from past to present of data. Heres an open question how many on this thread belong to a trail club? How many are members of the ATC? Members of ALDHA? Friends of Baxter? AMC?
    Like many people in the hiking and backpacking communities, I belong to and support several conservation organizations. Some I support monetarily like the ATC, The Nature Conservancy, and the New England Forestry Foundation, others supported both monetarily and volunteering time/labor to perform trail maintenance like the CFPA, which predates the ATC by several decades and uses donations from members and fund raising events to acquire property for conservation and continue the stewardship program for the 700 or so miles of trails in Connecticut. These organizations represent many millions of dollars in donations and fund raising for grants annually. This would not include State issued "vanity" license plates that support conservation of woodlands and waterways. In CT these plates generate between $250,000 - $290,000 annually for conservation programs.

    Businesses also generate a considerable amount of funding for conservation efforts, REI for example funds millions of dollars annually to various projects and in 2020 provided over $6-million to fund 400 non-profits engaged in conservation. Amazon in 2020 shared $10-million to forestry conservation in the Appalachians and other regions of the US. Also, as many in our community do, I pay attention to companies offering funding resources for conservation efforts via matching fund donations, purchase pledges, and matching fund donations. I do not disagree that hunters provide beneficial funding of forests and land conservation efforts through arms and ammunition taxes and licensing fees, though it should be pointed out much of this revenue is used for game restocking, which appear to be linked to public lands closures to non-hunters.

    According to some of the data available relative to hunting accidents, the overwhelming percentage of victims in accidental shootings are, themselves, hunters. These incidents have some interesting statistical break downs, the first being these accidents overwhelmingly occur between October and December (basically deer hunting season). The Loder and Farren 2014 study of hunting related incidents over a 15-year period report approximately 56% were gun shot related with the balance of hunting related injuries requiring medical treatment were lacerations and head/arm injuries associated with falling from trees. This is further supported by more recent studies of hunting related injuries that places falling from trees to be just over 50% of the total. Alcohol was an issue in 1.5% of these incidents. Of those injured by firearms, the majority were Caucasian (approximately 92%), male, between 24 and 44 years old.

    The evidence suggests a fairly steady, if not predictable, accident rate of hunting related accidents occur to hunters, not passers by like hikers, which appear to be nearly statistically irrelevant in the tables reviewed. Based on this, closure of public lands will/does not result in much, if any reduction of the overall accidental shooting rate of hikers. Though many States do in fact close public lands for hunting activities during the year, given statistical evidence it is difficult to say wether this is done to protect non-hunting persons or to limit the carnage to hunters alone.

    I do agree hunters, as part of the larger body of people who support forest and water conservation, do indeed contribute substantially to this funding. However, the notions hunters are the only statistical group providing the bulk of financial support for conservation efforts and closing of public land protects the non-hunting public is not supported by facts.

  18. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by hobbs View Post
    Agree they can coesist. The issue is the hikers do very little for their stake in it. TO be fair I am going to contact the clubs all of them and ask membership numbers. Then we can go from past to present of data. Heres an open question how many on this thread belong to a trail club? How many are members of the ATC? Members of ALDHA? Friends of Baxter? AMC?
    I'm not a member of any trail club. I'm not a joiner type person. But, I do a fair bit of volunteer trail work. I've built and maintained trails in the past that have then been taken over by local organizations or the local town parks department. And, I give regularly and generously (at least in my mind) to conservation organizations including both local and national. I have given more in the past to the Nature Conservancy that any other one group.

    Suffice to say that counting trail club members compared to hunting club members is pretty much a pointless exercise if you are trying to quantify the give-back of the different groups. There are plenty of studies looking at actual money spend on conservation by public, private, and non-profit organizations, etc. They look at tax dollars, license fee dollars and non-profit program budgets to name a few. Yes hunters make up a significant part of that money, but also a significant minority of that money. I think fishing actually contributes more than hunting. And all wildlife harvesting money is still less than non-hunting money.

    And then, in the end, there is not any good tally for volunteer hours, especially for private efforts. Most of my of hours of trail work are completely under the radar of any bean counter. Heck, I try to keep my trail-work hours under the radar from my wife so she doesn't get mad at me for doing that instead of work around the house.

    From me, thank you to all of you hunters, hikers and whoever for any and all your efforts to make our wild lands better!

    NOW, quit quibbling on who gives the most.

    Give what you can. Share what you can. Take care of your fellow users. And keep valuing our far-to-limited and threatened natural world.
    I'm not lost. I'm exploring.

  19. #99

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    FWIW, ATC gave em $1000k past couple years, just joined AMC. will probably do more down the line. Work about 60 hrs a week, and live a pretty far ways from the trail to volunteer before retiring.

  20. #100

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    On the plus side tonight I’m prepping for my annual colonoscopy. Fully confident my GI guy knows the difference between a hiker and a polyp, having bagged a few trophy specimens over the years. Whole third of my colon the second hunting trip.

    Life’s too short to bitch a whole lot.

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