Four season camping pad?

[flyingember]

Today I have a Zlite Sol (14oz, r2.0) and a Kylmit insulated static v lite (20oz, r4.4). I have the second one for backpacking.

That has me at one pad for most of the year and the pair for cold weather. I’ll be back to winter camping in 2023

I’ll have the money by mid October to get something really, really good with an eye on overall weight and quality. My three season backpacking gear is at 4lbs with the one pad, and that’s a huge improvement over two years ago. I want to cut a minimum of 1lb from my sleeping gear and hand down my gear to my kids to improve theirs.

A new winter sleeping bag is down the line, maybe next summer or fall. I already have a super light summer only bag picked out. I’ll get good use out of one sooner.


I have mild back issues and sleeping well keeps it from being a problem.

My starting point is the Thermarest Xtherm (15oz, r6.9) or Xlite (12.5oz, r4.2), both regular size
Why would I pick one vs the other other than those two obvious aspects? I’m leaning towards the xtherm as I can use it year round and hand down the zlite sol too.

Is there anything else I should look at that would compare to either pad I’ve started with?

[nsherry61]

I don't know how much winter overnight experience you may have. But, many of us that do regular backcountry overnights in the winter carry both an inflatable pad and a closed cell foam (ccf) pad. The ccf pad is a lifesaver whenever you want or need to stop and sit down for a break without sitting directly on either snow or wet surfaces. And, from the standpoint of survival, a ccf pad doesn't need inflated when an injury may limit your ability to inflate the mattress, and it can't get a hole in it that destroys its ability to insulate you from the cold.

When I'm going ultra-light, down to maybe 0 degrees F, I generally take my shorty x-lite pad with a full length z-rest ccf pad. When I'm going for comfort or colder temps, I'll go full length on both. With using both the ccf and inflatable pads, I rarely need the insulation of a 4-season inflatable. But, I do need the insulation of an insulated inflatable (like the x-lite or many others), AND NOT one of the uber-lite or other non-insulated 3-season or summer only inflatables.

With the extra weight of the x-therm being pretty minor compared to the x-lite, I'd likely buy a full length x-therm for winter use, not because I would feel a need for it, but, for the little bit of added comfort and flexibility with only a minor weight penalty.

[Mockernut]

I've used a large xtherm for years and years. I use it year round. love it. 25x77 so I can squirm around.

[flyingember]

I forgot to check if they had tested the pad to ASTM, Kylmit has a "Kylmit r-value "of 4.4 and now give a standard test value of 1.9. that's not even close

Definitely replacing my pad and I might need to keep it to summer use. Luckily that will work for now.

[CalebJ]

What's your definition of '4 season' use? That can make a significant difference on what people recommend.

[flyingember]

What's your definition of '4 season' use? That can make a significant difference on what people recommend.

midwest plains cold. It sometimes gets below 30 and snows even in April and January is 20s-30s regularly so planning for teens is prudent.


Thermarest has a nice chart that explains my question between all year and extreme cold
https://www.thermarest.com/blog/r-value-meaning/

I sleep cold, I have a comforter for bed when the AC is set to low 70s and I can sleep fine camping when the daytime temp is a heat index above 100.

I'm wondering if I'm better off having one better pad for most situations across the year or if I should get one pad better for three season and I use a pair of pads in winter.

It's the very well known question between cost, value and weight.

Both would be a better pad. I'll cut 5 ounces to the xtherm but 7.5 to the xlite but then I might need a 14oz pad too and 90% in the next few year will be spring/summer backpacking or car camping, so the winter weight isn't a huge loss.

[CalebJ]

Honestly in those temperature ranges I think you'd be fine with just the xlite. It saves you a bit of money and a couple of ounces. If you find you occasionally need a bit more insulation, you can always supplement with a CCF pad in those rare circumstances.

[flyingember]

For the sake of discussion, let’s say you had to buy today and the xlite and therm was out of stock everywhere.

What would you get instead?

[nsherry61]

. . . I'm wondering if I'm better off having one better pad for most situations across the year or if I should get one pad better for three season and I use a pair of pads in winter. . .

There isn't a "right" solution to this one. I might be tempted to get the x-therm for year round and then take a torso-length as my second winter pad and/or my ultra-light minimalist summer pad.

Good luck figuring out what you want.

[The Solemates]

I regularly go in temps that are around 0, and always with an x-therm. Highly recommended by me. I use mine year round. I have never taken 2 pads nor have I ever seen the need when paired with my 0 deg bag. took this set up to boundary waters last winter. In the summer sometimes I don’t take a bag, but always the x therm for comfort.

[nsherry61]

. . . I use mine year round. I have never taken 2 pads nor have I ever seen the need when paired with my 0 deg bag. . .

A working x-therm, by itself, is generally warm enough for sleeping. However, I always carry at least a torso length CCF pad to sit on, sort gear onto in the snow, as back-up if my inflatable gets damaged, and as emergency survival gear for ground insulation, even on day trips. I consider it more important than fire starter for safety in below freezing temps.

Attachment 48550

[The Solemates]

Balsam, hemlock, spruce, or other evergreen are perfectly suitable in emergency situations for me. Until the 1950s that’s what people used every night anyways. While I have used this, thankfully I’ve never had to rely on it in an emergency.

[nsherry61]

Balsam, hemlock, spruce, or other evergreen are perfectly suitable in emergency situations for me. . .

. . . unless you're above tree line, or in an area without evergreens with low branches, or you're not in a condition to run around harvesting branches.

The convenience and safety margin provided by a CCF pad in sub-freezing winter conditions is extraordinary, especially if you are traveling ultra-lite and more than a day away from a trailhead. That being said, I fully support anyone interested in jumping over the back fence and heading out with a pocket knife, some tea, and a loaf of bread. The problem being, I don't think that's the experience most of us are looking for in our multi-day winter activities.

[CalebJ]

Agreed, nsherry. I don't always carry a CCF backup, but it definitely has its place. Something of a 'get out of jail free' card when you're heading into places where the loss of an inflatable could be catastrophic. Quick overnight trips where you can pack up and keep moving in the event of a failure are one thing. Multi night trips above tree line with no good exit options are a different situation entirely and the CCF option really needs to be in the pack.

[Venchka]

For the sake of discussion, let’s say you had to buy today and the xlite and therm was out of stock everywhere.

What would you get instead?

As a VERY HAPPY Xtherm Large user down to 15 F in a WM Alpenlite Long, I would WAIT for the Xtherm.
As recommended above, I would ADD a CCF foam pad in remote areas or lower temperatures.
Wayne