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  1. #1

    Default NH Whites during early/mid October. Any special gear needed?

    I'm working on finishing a flip-flop hike of the AT right now: going SOBO back to NY. A couple of injuries slowed me down unexpectedly. And I'm looking at being in the NH Whites until about October 9-12 (hopefully not any later). I've heard the weather in that section is extreme. And I'm wondering if the gear I began my hike with is going to cut it, or If I'll have to swap anything out to keep warm/safe. Here's the gear I have right now that seems relevant to this:

    Tent: Zpacks Duplex
    Quilt: EE 30 degree + a light liner
    Sleeping pad: Neemo Tensor

    Day Clothes:
    - Rain Jacket + Pants
    - Quick-Dry running shorts and t-shirt
    - Salomon waterproof boots

    Sleeping clothes:
    -Down puffy jacket
    -Merino wool quarter-zip top
    -Merino wool leggings
    -Merino wool cap
    -Extra pair of socks

    This gear was okay for me, back in Georgia, in early March. I even had a couple nights in the low teens (although they were not comfortable). But I'm concerned this section could be a lot more serious. And if anybody has any gear advice, I'd appreciate it very much!

  2. #2

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    With climate change the really severe weather has shifted a bit but traditionally there will have already been overnight snow on the summits by around October first and there could be icing conditions in the AM melting off as the day warms up. Microspikes could be useful. Your day gear may not be adequate, its time of year when weather fronts move in from Canada with cold wet windy conditions moving in for a few days followed by warm sunny days. Plan on long sleeves, convertible pants, hat or lightweight balaclava, gloves, windblock fleece jacket. You may need to hike with all exposed skin covered or hunker down for a few days. I was at BSP last week and was using similar hiking gear for several hours in the morning. Down is worthless when hiking, it could get damp quickly, great for evening.

    The AMC facilities may be closed which makes the logistics more difficult, some like Lakes, Zealand and Greenleaf may be open on a caretaker basis.

    Plan on below freezing nights, if you use a butane stove it can be problem as they do not work well below freezing.

    The other alternative is just break the hike up into shorter stretches and hike around the rotten weather. Lot to be said for slackpacks but obviously logistically difficult. If you have the option get a shuttle down to Gorham ASAP and knock the whites out earlier. 3 or 4 weeks in the fall make a big difference in conditions.

  3. #3
    Registered User One Half's Avatar
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    Get a good map of the WMNF in case you get stuck in weather so you can get "down" quickly even if it means taking different trails. This will also allow you to find other places to camp than along the AT should the need arise.

    That said, your gear would not be enough for me in what could conceivably, and is routinely, the worst weather during that time frame. But I am basically a "lizard" and require some help staying warm. You may also want to include some microspikes, gloves, and a fleece vest (I always found I needed the extra layer but wanted the freedom of fewer "arms") Maybe include a neck gaitor. I use one by mountain hardwear that I have had for almost 30 years and it can be worn covering my head, neck and face or any combo of the 3. It has kept me warm on many very cold days, on and off trail.
    https://tinyurl.com/MyFDresults

    A vigorous five-mile walk will do more good for an unhappy but otherwise healthy adult than all the medicine and psychology in the world. ~Paul Dudley White

  4. #4
    Registered User 4eyedbuzzard's Avatar
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    October weather is a crapshoot. You could see anything from a beautiful sunny 60°(almost) day with 40° night to windy (and wet or icy) 30° (or colder) days and teens overnight with 60+mph winds on the exposed ridges. I remember hiking up and staying at Liberty Springs campsite (Franconia area) on an overnight hike in mid-Oct on Columbus Day weekend one year. It was a beautiful 60° weekend with only a light breeze. LOTS of other hikers also seized the moment. The Franconia ridge looked like a ride line at Disney. Temps were 60° during the day falling only to 40° at night - but this was a spot of unusually nice weather. Two days later it was freezing rain and 60+ mph winds up on the ridges (100mph+ on Mt Washington). On average I think you'll see 40s during the day and 30s/high 20s at night in the Presidentials. Most would recommend a warmer bag/quilt and some warmer clothing to error on the side of caution.

    I would make sure you have wind blocking clothing of some sort (your rain gear may suffice but it tends not to breathe), also including wind blocking for the head, ears, neck. Add eyewear and gloves too. The wind above treeline can be brutal even in good clear weather. I remember my ears being in severe pain for several days following a hike when I didn't shield my ears from the cold (but not freezing) wind. They didn't freeze obviously, but they hurt like hell. This was wearing a wool cap that wasn't windproof. Bought a wind-blocking fleece hat after that event. Be prepared to spend some time and money waiting out bad weather in town if needed. You'll need several good weather windows as you'll be hiking down some distance off the ridges to camp, adding additional miles and time to the trail miles. The higher huts are already closed for the season. Sometimes there isn't any gear that makes it advisable to be up there. Check the Higher Summits Forecast regularly to get an idea of what to expect up in the Presidentials and on the other exposed ridges. https://www.mountwashington.org/expe...-forecast.aspx
    "That's the thing about possum innards - they's just as good the second day." - Jed Clampett

  5. #5

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    Fallesafe,
    My first reaction is you’re asking for trouble packing a 30 degree quilt in the Whites in October.

    I know that’s a general statement, but the fact is, the Whites can be life-threatening anytime after September.

    Please watch the weather very closely. You’ll need very substantial, especially if you get stuck.

    Suggest you read “Not Without Peril” by Nicolas Howe. This book recounts 150 years of weather mishaps in the Whites.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

  6. #6

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    Thanks everyone for your suggestions! I have a 10 degree sleeping bag, a technical fleece, microspikes, a neck gaiter and a better hat waiting for me in Gorham. I'm feeling better about this section now.👍

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    Registered User 4eyedbuzzard's Avatar
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    Now that you got all that gear, you're going to hit a pretty nice weather window from Tuesday morning thru the end of the week. But if you hadn't, there would have been an early season blizzard
    "That's the thing about possum innards - they's just as good the second day." - Jed Clampett

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fallesafe View Post
    Thanks everyone for your suggestions! I have a 10 degree sleeping bag, a technical fleece, microspikes, a neck gaiter and a better hat waiting for me in Gorham. I'm feeling better about this section now.
    Good call.

    However my question is what makes a "technical fleece" different than any other fleece? Does it have batteries and a heat wire woven in? Or perhaps solar panels on the sleeves?

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    Registered User One Half's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4eyedbuzzard View Post
    Now that you got all that gear, you're going to hit a pretty nice weather window from Tuesday morning thru the end of the week. But if you hadn't, there would have been an early season blizzard


    more than likely. I used to always carry my worst weather gear for all my hikes in the Whites, regardless of how long or short the hike was (day hike or multinights). I never once regretted carrying it all and NOT having to use it.
    https://tinyurl.com/MyFDresults

    A vigorous five-mile walk will do more good for an unhappy but otherwise healthy adult than all the medicine and psychology in the world. ~Paul Dudley White

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by 4eyedbuzzard View Post
    Now that you got all that gear, you're going to hit a pretty nice weather window from Tuesday morning thru the end of the week. But if you hadn't, there would have been an early season blizzard
    Absolutely! It's just like my go-to method for stopping rain: by dropping my pack and putting on my rain suit. These two extra pounds are a small price to pay for all the nice weather I'm going to enjoy now!😁

  11. #11
    Registered User 4eyedbuzzard's Avatar
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    Well, seems your nice weather window turned a bit sour - snow and reports of ice above 5000', cloudy, windier, and temps lower than originally forecast only a few days ago. Such is the reliability of weather forecasts in the Whites. Let us know how you are doing!
    Last edited by 4eyedbuzzard; 09-30-2021 at 19:22.
    "That's the thing about possum innards - they's just as good the second day." - Jed Clampett

  12. #12

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    Its not the end of the warm weather but looks like it we are in cold pattern. It will warm up during the days but nights will be cold.

  13. #13
    Registered User 4eyedbuzzard's Avatar
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    Last Saturday, the weather forecasts (higher summits and NOAA) for Tues thru Sat on the ridges from Madison to Moosilauke was for 40s / 50s during the day with lows in the high 20s / low 30s, party cloudy, little to no precip, breezy/windy, but mostly 30 mph or so and topping out at 50 mph gusts. The reality is that temps are 10° or so lower, cloudy, with higher winds in the 40 mph range and 65+ gusts, with snow showers and ice and frostbite warnings.

    Sometimes those of us who live or have experience in the Whites are criticized by some others for being over-cautious when we recommend that people have warmer, more wind resistant gear than what they are normally carrying on the AT when hiking the exposed ridges here. Thankfully, that (criticism) didn't happen in this thread. But sometimes, because when someone hiked the Whites once or twice, it was during the summer and/or in good weather and they didn't run into the extremes that occur here, they think some of us are over-playing the dangers. It's tough to make these recommendations, knowing that many times the gear won't be needed. In this case, the weather was worse than the extended forecast and I was glad to hear that the OP changed out his sleeping bag and added some insulative clothing and microspikes. Just another example of why people should never under-estimate the possibility of bad weather conditions here, even if the forecast is for good weather.
    "That's the thing about possum innards - they's just as good the second day." - Jed Clampett

  14. #14

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    50 mph winds, 12 deg. wind chill this morning. Just saying.
    https://www.mountwashington.org/expe...onditions.aspx

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