Leo, have you considered a layering system? Maybe use a synthetic quilt as the outside layer and your existing down bag as the inside layer?
Enlightened Equipment has a double layer strapping system that gives the option to add or delete a quilt layer. With a solid ground pad system it’s excellent. Gives great flexibility for all four seasons.
Shouldering the bag while hiking:
Can't imagine this, but the idea fo draping the bag over the shoulders while eating breakfast ist a good one, esp. because many times there is no decent place to hang the bag in the sun.
Layering:
Yes, I do some layering occasionally, when going in extreme cold weather I'd use my summer down bag stuffed into the winter down bag. The same with the pads, layering two one atop the other.
But honestly, using two bags instead of one super-warm bag leaves you carrying extra weight and bulk for the same goal.
Thats the other reason why I'd like to purchase one super-warm bag.
BTW, we don't have quilts for hiking here in Austria, never saw or heard of such aside of this forum.
Well you might do some research. The bottom layer of any sleeping bag is crushed by your weight. Sleeping pads provide most if not all insulation from the ground. Quilts distribute most materials to your top or sides with a 360* foot box. They have a broader temperature range since you can use them like a blanket to a full mummy. IMO, ounce for ounce it’s a better system, especially for restless sleepers
Well, (ten-)thousands of quilt-users do this for a reason, I guess?
But then, many times I'm using my sleepingbags in quilt-mode at the beginning of an outdoor night, and creep into the bag & zip it up later when the night gets chilly.
Modern bags have less insulation on the bottom side due to the fact that it will be crushed and thus be less functional anyway.
Botom line is, we don't have quilts here so I couldn't give it a try without importing one from abroad.
And I guess it would'nt make any difference to the condensation issue?
You might consider an ultralight bivy.
I use a Katabatic Bristlecone when conditions warrant. It keeps my bag/quilt from getting condensation on it when it rubs the wall of my shelter, and adds a little warmth. It also keeps my water bottles from freezing when temps are in the teens-I just lay them alongside my pad inside the bivy.
True, I'm ready to buy a perfect bivy bag, because the one I have is for emergency only and doesn't suit for hiking.
That would be the next big question: Recommendation for the perfect bivy bag?
I don’t know much but there’s one thing I know and that’s nothing is perfect. There are too many variables and too many ways for things to go wrong. You do the best you can then adapt when it goes to hell. That’s what makes a good hiker, right?
Buy whatever bag you think will work then make it fit your hiking style.
Just a word of caution, most bivy sacks are condensation traps, even if they claim to be breathable. They're essentially single wall tents whose exterior wall you're touching all the time, and you're also putting a lot of water vapor from your breath into the small-volume sack throughout the night. Despite noseeum mesh and so-called breathable top fabrics, you're going to overwhelm its breathing capacity and end up with moisture in and on your bag. The only chance to escape this fate is very dry air outside the bivy (creating a large humidity differential that may draw the moisture out of the bag) and a breeze to carry vapor away from the breathable top of the sack and mesh head window.Originally Posted by Leo L.
I only carry one as backup for unplanned overnights. Never as a shelter when I intend to camp.
Some reviews and background here:
https://www.outdoorgearlab.com/topic...best-bivy-sack
I like the Bristlecone, but it's the only bivy of its type that I've used. I have an emergency "SOL" bivy, and hooped eVent bivy that's a standalone shelter, but that's it.
Since I really just want it for cold weather cowboy camping, or to use under a pyramid shelter, "perfect" for me would be something more simple, with custom sizing and no bug netting over my face.
It's really versatile, though. Whether cowboy camping, or when my shelter was dripping wet, sheeted in ice, or had 40mph wind blowing snow under the edges because it wasn't slammed to the ground, it's kept my stuff clean and dry whenever I've used it.
I bought the 5'6" version based on the dimensions seeming more than adequate, and that's definitely the case.
Here it is with a 6' pad and 6' Wide Katabatic Palisade. I pretty much empty my pack into it, since there's room at the head and on either side of me.
1020379.jpg
Nice pic, OwenM.
I always understood bivy bags as an emergency item only, until we once had an autumn cowboy sleep over on a local mountaintop, me and my wife just in the sleepingbags, the other couple snug in a two-persons Goretex Bivy bag.
Me and my wife had wet bags in the morning, the other couple stayed completely dry.
Later in the cold of the winter I did a test, borrowd their 2-person Goretex bag and had a sleepover on another summit, under the open sky, in deep cold (est. -10°C) and while the bivy was completely frosted over in the morning, everything inside, esp. my sleeping bag, was completely dry.
So this is what I'd consider "the perfect bivybag".
But then, this specific product is no longer available.
There are a ton of bivys out there that claim to keep you dry - but the few I've tried myself failed miserably to do so.
MLD's "Description" section for their Superlight has what I think is a pretty good breakdown for this type of bivy.
https://mountainlaureldesigns.com/pr...ght-solo-bivy/
I know Borah Gear makes one, too, and imagine there are others.
Thank you, will try to get a hands-on of this bivy here in Austria.
Read Time Zone’s cautions. The bivy is a great tool but moisture still needs managed. Site selection away from water, with a little wind, a correctly pitched tarp, venting your breath can all help. Was able to Cowboy camp for a week this summer with no moisture issues at all. Another time sleeping next to a lake my bivy was wet and I had a little dampness on my bag inside. When Cowboy camping or tarp camping the bivy keeps my bag cleaner. I also sleep with a quilt and the bivy helps eliminate drafts when I flip flop at night.
I currently have the Borah Bivy which is lightweight and a good price point. The long side zip is great making entry/exit easy and something I want in a bivy. Went a bit longer/wider so I could stash a little gear inside. This bivy must be supplemented with a tarp because of its mesh face area. Although other than an emergency bivy you really want to supplement your bivy with a tarp for heavy/extended rain. It could be a small tarp or a poncho but enough to cover your head/chest area which you will appreciate in an all night rain. A loosely pitched tarp can also help with moisture management in humid areas.
Some people think a bivy is claustrophobic. Instead think of it as just a cover for your bag, it is no more confining than your mummy sleeping bag.
Western Mountaineering bags are usually good for 5-10 degrees below rated temp. Never heard of a WM down bag breaking down due to age.
I don’t understand how a bivy is synonymous with “the perfect winter bag”. In my mind, they are completely different. A bivy is a shelter, best used in dry climates/conditions. Why would you carry the extra weight if you are already carrying a shelter?
I can understand people who carry one for emergencies on a cold, winter day hike or to cowboy camp out west.
One thing you can do in winter is take a 1'×1' piece of fleece and breathe into that which captures all your moisture. I seen shug do this.
@Traffic Jam:
I'm not doing really long-distance hikes nowadays, esp. due to Corona restrictions.
Most of my hikes are 3-4days in the local mountains. I can select days where the forecast is near-perfect.
As pointed out many times, camping/overnighting is prohibited in most places here around, esp. in the forests.
It would be very convenient if I had some stuff that would allow me to cowboy-camp more often (as I've done in the Middle East deserts hundreds of times).
So I'm investigating (a) the perfectly cosy winter sleeping bag for the really cold nights in the tent, (c) a system or an idea to avoid condenstation, plus (c) as a bonus, some means to perform cowboy-camping more often, including a bivy that I could use instead of a tent.
@JNI64:
I've tried a similar approach but couldn't stand breathing into something, be it a net or fleece or anything else. Just get a terrible claustrophobic feeling.
Only one time I found breathing into a light shawl saved my nose from getting frostbitten in a super-cold night on Mount Blanc.
Yeah I feel ya, kinda like wearing a mask for a year.
If you you could attach a string to the center of fleece and up to the roof of your shelter you have it off your face. Kinda like a tipi for your head traping all the moisture.
Gotcha…somehow I missed that there are 3 different topics.
And because most people explain things better than I do, you might be interested in this…
“The Bivy Condensation Conundrum”. It’s rather excellent and may help you choose your perfect bivy.
https://40yearsofwalking.wordpress.c...ion-conundrum/
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