Pennsylvania - No parking from sunset to sun rise

[Wolf - 23000]

Hi everyone,Does anyone know the story on why the public can no longer park overnight in southern Pennsylvania? I'm not sure when it happened, but I went up to Pennsylvania last month and found signs at every AT road crossing prohibiting overnight parking. I'm sure I am not alone when I say I often enjoy spending a quick night out and do so as often as I can. Is ATC now trying to restrict trail usage to just day hiking?

Wolf

[HankIV]

Probably law enforcement trying to reduce catalytic converter theft.

[TrailPossum]

Probably law enforcement trying to reduce catalytic converter theft.

I am pretty sure Hank is spot on. Real problem around the PA, NY & NJ trail last couple years. Heard rumors of a ring popping out of NYC. Who knows? Southern PA tends to have a lot of residential close to road crossings as well, that might play a roll. Of course, if your in the Cumberland Valley there's no camping for something like 20 miles. Yep.

[Traveler]

Likely this is due to one of several reasons: overuse that has despoiled (mud ruts, etc) private land near trail heads, habitual unwanted parking on private lands near trail heads, accidents related to poor parking and related traffic issues, increased criminal acts of theft or vandalism of parked cars, or parked cars causing people to walk in the road and creating a hazard. I don't think the ATC has the legal horsepower to post signage like this outside of trail head property owned and/or maintained by the ATC along State or Local public roads, though they can request it.

[Seatbelt]

Is this new? I parked there for a 4 days in Pine Grove Furnace Park in Nov and my son left his veh in Pen-Mar during the same time and we never saw any signs. Saw numerous cars at several parking lots at trailheads along the way[although they could have been day hikers].

[Wolf - 23000]

Is this new? I parked there for a 4 days in Pine Grove Furnace Park in Nov and my son left his veh in Pen-Mar during the same time and we never saw any signs. Saw numerous cars at several parking lots at trailheads along the way[although they could have been day hikers].

I saw the signs over the Christmas season at Old Forge Road, PA 233, PA 16, and several trail access points near the shelters. I used to live in Waynesboro, PA, about 15 years ago. I know things change, but I don't remember it being a high-crime area. Even if it was, typically in high-crime areas along the trail, a sign is left warning people of the risk and not to leave valuables in their vehicles. I'm not an expert on the subject, but I don't think the local law enforcement has the authority to place signs up on parkland. I believe that would fall under the park service or ATC to make those decisions. My worry is this will become the norm, where overnight hikers are going to have difficulty parking overnight? What was the cause of the policy change? I have not heard of any up spike in crime in the area.

Wolf

[One Half]

I saw the signs over the Christmas season at Old Forge Road, PA 233, PA 16, and several trail access points near the shelters. I used to live in Waynesboro, PA, about 15 years ago. I know things change, but I don't remember it being a high-crime area. Even if it was, typically in high-crime areas along the trail, a sign is left warning people of the risk and not to leave valuables in their vehicles. I'm not an expert on the subject, but I don't think the local law enforcement has the authority to place signs up on parkland. I believe that would fall under the park service or ATC to make those decisions. My worry is this will become the norm, where overnight hikers are going to have difficulty parking overnight? What was the cause of the policy change? I have not heard of any up spike in crime in the area.

Wolf

The side of roads ay very well be subject to the local jurisdiction parking ordinances. It would certainly vary by state and even could vary within a single state. I doubt the ATC has any "enforcement" ability so its either the local forest service/similar or the local law enforcement

[JPritch]

Sucks about the CC thefts. I used to have a beater vehicle I used for my section hikes, but now I just have my new-ish truck and I'm paranoid leaving it at any trailhead, even for a day hike. I may add finding safe parking to my long list of logistics concerns for a section hike.

[Wolf - 23000]

The side of roads ay very well be subject to the local jurisdiction parking ordinances. It would certainly vary by state and even could vary within a single state. I doubt the ATC has any "enforcement" ability so its either the local forest service/similar or the local law enforcement

The side of the road is also on park land which falls under the Department of Parks and Recreation. When the parking lots are providing trail access on park land, I believe you are wrong, and would fall on responsibility of the Park Service/ATC to make those decisions - similar to any other park that closes at dark. The Park service and ATC has the invested interest to provide trail access. ATC also works with the Park Service and when needed law enforcement in trail related matters. I don't disagree with you that local law enforcement cannot enforce the law, but the restrictions would not fall under the local law enforcement.

Wolf

[Lauriep]

All rules along the A.T. are set by local land managing agencies, of which there are more than 75 from Georgia to Maine. The National Park Service (NPS) has rules and regulations that pertain to Appalachian Trail lands they own, but that's less than 40% of the A.T. In Pennsylvania, a patchwork of NPS land exists, mostly sandwiched in between Pennsylvania State Game Commission lands north of the Susquehanna River.

If parking lots in southern Pennsylvania have been closed to overnight use excluding Pine Grove Furnace State Park, there's a good chance it has been done by the Michaux State Forest, which is the primary land-managing agency between the Maryland border and the Cumberland Valley. Pine Grove Furnace State Park and Caledonia State Park operate under different agencies with different rules. Pen Mar is a county park owned by Washington County, Maryland. As others have posted, ATC has no authority to set or enforce rules anywhere on the A.T. itself.

The Appalachian National Scenic Trail is governed by cooperative agreements between ATC, local trail clubs, and local land-managing agencies. In the expected/ideal scenario, all management decisions are made cooperatively with all partners, but ultimately the land-managing agency has the authority to make rules. In reality, ATC and the local maintaining trail club on occasion may not be consulted, especially if the A.T. is just a very small part of the land mass and usage that is overseen by a particular agency and they feel a change needs to be made due to changing circumstances. In Covid times, with staffing shortages everywhere and managers of public lands dealing with increased use and all kinds of problems, who knows what is behind the overnight parking closures. Hopefully the closures are not permanent.

Thanks for sharing the change as a heads up for other hikers, Wolf.

[HooKooDooKu]

Sucks about the CC thefts. I used to have a beater vehicle I used for my section hikes, but now I just have my new-ish truck and I'm paranoid leaving it at any trailhead, even for a day hike. I may add finding safe parking to my long list of logistics concerns for a section hike.

I do a lot of hiking in Great Smoky Mountains National Park, and typically, it's been a relatively quiet area when it comes to issues with cars at trailheads.
There's always been some level of car break-ins, so locals in the know would tell you to make sure you lock up your vehicle and don't leave ANYTHING in sight a thief might want.
There was only one trail-head that had a bad reputation for car/car-part theft, but that seemed to have died down when a mechanic that lived near the trailhead was "caught".
But suddenly, just this past year, there has been a HUGE up-tick in CC thefts in the some-what remote north-east corner of the park.
For years, it's been said NOT to park at Davenport Gap, but to instead park your vehicle next to the near-by Big Creek Ranger Station in the park.
But today, Big Creek has been THE H.O.T. BED of CC thefts in the last year.
You don't hear much about CC thefts at other well-known over-night parking spots (like for any of the trails that lead to LeConte). But Social Media has been lighting up in this last year reporting CC thefts in Big Creek.

[Wolf - 23000]

Thanks Laurie,

I would be interested in knowing why Michaux State Forest made the call to restrict parking in those areas. I don't recall hearing anything that was bone chilling and when I did live in the area, it was always a nice place to visit for an overnight. ATC may not have the final say in what goes on, but I believe they do have some influence. If it was a public safety issue, it is understandable, but I have not heard anything that required the additional restriction. I'm sure many people similar to me would just like to know why.

Wolf