Maine winter AT hike that went bad

**LazyLightning** · 02-03-2022, 15:14

Just for example - remember the guy they found dead in FL after his GF was found dead? .... just remember, the media was calling that guy an "experienced hiker" when he was thought to possibly be on the AT. Then it was exposed in a FB post or something he was bragging about surviving for weeks on nothing but roman noodles or something (it wasn't roman noodles but something like that) and other instances to show lack of experience. So if the media says someone is experienced there is just as good a chance they are not at all.

**JNI64** · 02-03-2022, 15:33

And..... what I've found out in life is "the empty can ratlles the most ".

**cmoulder** · 02-04-2022, 09:58

Originally Posted by LazyLightning

Just for example - remember the guy they found dead in FL after his GF was found dead? .... just remember, the media was calling that guy an "experienced hiker" when he was thought to possibly be on the AT. Then it was exposed in a FB post or something he was bragging about surviving for weeks on nothing but roman noodles or something (it wasn't roman noodles but something like that) and other instances to show lack of experience. So if the media says someone is experienced there is just as good a chance they are not at all.

There are people with 30 years of experience and those who have repeated the first year 30 times.

**4eyedbuzzard** · 02-04-2022, 12:28

The very best of us can, and do, make mistakes. And I'm decidedly not among the best. I can't hike 15 miles in the Whites on a day hike, even in summer (not anymore anyway). I haven't bagged the whatever number of whatever footers anywhere (like the younger of these two guys). I've retraced my steps, more times than I'd like to admit, to get back on trail after wandering off. I've even bushwacked out of the woods to a road after getting thoroughly disoriented. I've turned around when the weather turned bad or conditions started deteriorating. Maybe I'm just too risk adverse (cluck, cluck). That said, I think that if I had to be rescued once (as one of these two did only 2 years prior), I'd be damned sure to never - EVER - let it happen again.

What I don't understand in this case is that both of these guys live in the basic geographical area / climate conditions where this occurred, have all sorts of hiking experience that eclipses mine (ADK 3500 clubs, pics of winter ascents on their FB page, etc.), and yet were thoroughly unprepared to spend even a single night out in the woods - on a 15 mile hike, in the White Mountains, in the dead of winter, on snowshoes, . . . Even in summer, with relatively benign weather conditions and 15 hours of daylight, I'd be at least minimally prepared (gear and water) to spend a night out on almost any hike, simply because $#!^ can and does happen. So, I just don't get it. I'm tempted to ask, "What am I missing"? But then I think that perhaps I don't really want to know the answer. Maybe because 40 - 50 years ago when I started hiking we couldn't - and wouldn't - get rescued if we f, er, messed up. There were no cell phones, nor PLBs, nor anything. At best there was a check-in call after a hike, but more likely just a sign-in at a trail register. We KNEW that no one was coming to save our butts [from our own stupidity], for at least for a day or two. So we planned and behaved and carried appropriate gear accordingly.

Sigh. Oh well, just another rant from an OG on the demise of self-sufficiency and responsibility, and perhaps the rise of dependence and arrogance - which doesn't seem, embarrassingly for my generation, to be exclusively a function of youth. 25 years ago (or likely less - Maine has never had good cell service), or one dead phone battery these days, they might have been found injured and frostbitten, or even dead. Some say "no harm, no foul". I'll only agree to half of that - that there was ultimately no harm. But only because thanks to the good fortune of a cell phone having a working battery and being able to see a tower, mother nature wasn't able to throw her flag and dish out the penalty.

**cmoulder** · 02-04-2022, 13:16

Sums it up nicely for me, being the same age.

Back then, our rescue plan was us. Certainly brought more gravity and immediacy to the "What if?" scenarios... nobody was going to come get you.

**Deadeye** · 02-04-2022, 19:00

Amen, brother.

I have a cell phone, but can't rely on service. It's still my plan, every hike, that I have a time I'll be home, and someone responsible will call the ranger if I'm not. And I have what I need to get through the night if need be.

**RiverbirchHiker** · 02-06-2022, 01:06

Originally Posted by Wolf - 23000

I have only seen a few clips, but from what I have seen there are a lot of difficulties he is not sharing. I did my winter Maine hike in 2005. It is not an easy trip. Unless someone has a lot of winter experience, I would not recommend it. I believe I even posted a few photos here on whiteblaze. Wolf

I've gotten really into watching his videos. That's got me thinking a lot about what it's like to backpack on the AT in winter--the difficulties and what kind of experience is needed, and more.
---------------

**I could go on about this, and don't want to get too off topic here. So, I'll put all that into a different, new thread. This thread started with a response to this article and how these two hikers got into a serious (life-threatening) jam and were rescued: https://bangordailynews.com/2022/01/...O8nf8TZiNL7sac

**Debbie** · 02-06-2022, 12:18

I just can’t believe this. It’s beyond foolish or crazy; it’s beyond belief. I agree there’s got to be more to the story. I have done this section in summertime and that was difficult enough.

**Emerson Bigills** · 02-07-2022, 10:00

I am not an experienced winter conditions hiker by any means. I do have a couple thoughts on this, however. As I recall that section of the AT is very challenging even in good weather. I have to admit that I slack packed it on my AT thru-hike and felt fortunate I didn't have my entire kit on me. Very tough terrain and we all know the infamy.

Like most in this thread, I "enjoy" reading about backcountry trips gone awry. From what I have seen, people who perish or come close are not always novices. The level of experience may often be exaggerated in the media, but experience in the backwoods is not the only ticket to survival. It also requires judgement. It's not uncommon to get bad forecasts and you can find yourself in an unexpected situation. Backpackers are stubborn to turn around or even hunker down and ride it out. Bottom line is you need to expect the unexpected and leave your "pride" back at the trailhead. As I once heard on an AMC video, "Mother Nature is indifferent about outcomes".

**4eyedbuzzard** · 02-07-2022, 16:32

Just as a parallel: Most private pilots I know closely follow NTSB and AOPA accident reports on general aviation incidents. One of the behavioral failures that is most common in aviation, even with experienced pilots, is known technically as "plan continuation bias", aka get-there-itis, a subconscious cognitive bias to continue the original plan in spite of changing conditions, accounting for almost half of all fatal general aviation accidents. We see this similar behavior in hiking and mountaineering (called summit fever) quite often, as in this rescue event. When it became apparent early-on, based upon their progress, that they couldn't possibly complete their hike, and yet unprepared to spend the night, they continued on rather than turning back at the half-way point time wise. In hindsight, it never makes any sense, but it happens all too frequently, and is repeated year after year. We humans are stubborn creatures.

**Wolf - 23000** · 02-12-2022, 17:45

Originally Posted by RiverbirchHiker

I've gotten really into watching his videos. That's got me thinking a lot about what it's like to backpack on the AT in winter--the difficulties and what kind of experience is needed, and more.
---------------

RiverbirchHiker,

I have section hiked the entire AT in the winter. It is not an easy journey. I did my journey nearly entirely without support. I also accepted the risk that if something was going to happen, there was not going to be a rescue team coming after me. There are multiple challenges that most people are not even going to think about until they are there. The first is route finding on the trail marked with white blazes surrounded by white is not easy. On top of that you are breaking snow continuously. Some area the snow is going to be extremely deep others less - it depends on where the snow collects with the wind. And of course, there is water. My guest is these two knock heads were not carrying enough water or had their water freeze on them. Winter hiking is very physical demanding - you need a lot of water to keep yourself hydrated enough. Videos can tell you a lot but there are a lot more that unless you are there or experience, most hikers are not going to know.

Wolf

**Night Train** · 02-12-2022, 23:06