Diamond Shelter

[Hillbillyhanger]

Historically, I've used hammocks and tarps along with my backpacking tent. I've been thinking about experimenting with a tarp in February on a trip that I cannot use a hammock. I've watched a lot of Youtube videos advocating the diamond or plow point shelter as offering great weather protection. I've seen several videos demonstrating this setup with an 8x8 tarp. Can you really get rain protection with an 8x8 tarp in the diamond configuration. It just looks small and it hasn't rained here yet for me to test. Thanks in advance.

[pettas]

We had two of us under a 10'x10' tarp in that configuration and stayed dried in a major rainstorm on Lake George in the Adirondacks. We were part of a 6 day living history event (French and Indian War) so our tarp was made from oilcloth but it kept us safe and our gear covered. That could have all changed if the wind shifted but we were lucky since it stayed blowing from the same direction throughout.

That's all for now. Take care and until next time...be well.

snapper

[Alligator]

Can you get away with an 8x8 in a diamond for a hammock on a ridgeline? I do understand you are talking about fixing one point. The diagonal on an 8x8 is 11.3'. You won't have that distance on the ground but the lower you drop the high corner the wider the sides extend and the on the ground diagonal will get longer. If you haven't tried it, you can use a piece of paper to simulate the configuration. You can also simulate rain with a garden sprayer.

You'd be fine in a pyramid configuration.

It will be colder with a tarp though in Feb, it won't hold much if any heat. Have you set a tarp up in the winter, hammocking that is? Wouldn't be something I'd recommend to someone if they hadn't tarped exclusively before, first go in February that is.

[Hillbillyhanger]

We had two of us under a 10'x10' tarp in that configuration and stayed dried in a major rainstorm on Lake George in the Adirondacks. We were part of a 6 day living history event (French and Indian War) so our tarp was made from oilcloth but it kept us safe and our gear covered. That could have all changed if the wind shifted but we were lucky since it stayed blowing from the same direction throughout.

That's all for now. Take care and until next time...be well.

snapper

Thank you!

[Hillbillyhanger]

Can you get away with an 8x8 in a diamond for a hammock on a ridgeline? I do understand you are talking about fixing one point. The diagonal on an 8x8 is 11.3'. You won't have that distance on the ground but the lower you drop the high corner the wider the sides extend and the on the ground diagonal will get longer. If you haven't tried it, you can use a piece of paper to simulate the configuration. You can also simulate rain with a garden sprayer.

You'd be fine in a pyramid configuration.

It will be colder with a tarp though in Feb, it won't hold much if any heat. Have you set a tarp up in the winter, hammocking that is? Wouldn't be something I'd recommend to someone if they hadn't tarped exclusively before, first go in February that is.

Yes, I have setup a tarp with the hammock and stayed very warm (at least here in NC in February. Typical lows only in the upper teens/low 20s). My question was not about using an 8x8 in a diamond with a hammock, but on the ground. I thought I had stated that I had a trip in which I couldn't take the hammock. I may have not been clear.

[Alligator]

Yes, I have setup a tarp with the hammock and stayed very warm (at least here in NC in February. Typical lows only in the upper teens/low 20s). My question was not about using an 8x8 in a diamond with a hammock, but on the ground. I thought I had stated that I had a trip in which I couldn't take the hammock. I may have not been clear.

I understood your question. If you can pitch an 8x8 tarp over a hammock in a diamond shape, ridgeline on the tarp diagonal, and you were comfortable with that, you could just do the same on the ground by lowering the ridgeline. If you decide to go with fixing the back corner to the ground and lifting the front (sometimes called flying diamond), and feel it's not working for you, you have the option to return the ridgeline to horizontal. Or set it up pyramid style, which I think you'd be fine with, that's how I usually pitch in bad weather.

The smallest tarp I've used is 8x10 so I can't give you a definitive answer but most experienced tarp users don't seem to consider 8x8 too small. Sleeping under a tarp is like sleeping in a lean-to. You catch breezes and wind sometimes. Not sure what you might use in your hammock for underneath insulation but you'll need a decent pad on the ground for winter (or double up with a foam pad). Since you are familiar with setting up your tarp in the winter, working with lines and stakes, keeping it taut, no big deal there. Too many small issues can get magnified to a bigger issue and in the winter that's not a good thing. I have tarped in mild winter conditions but I generally bring either a winter tent or my pyramid tent during the winter. I prefer four walls for the margin of error. Blowing snow would be a concern depending on location.

[cmoulder]

Tarp can be okay.... until the wind direction changes.

For wind and snow, a pyramid (MLD Duomid below) is hard to beat. Got you covered from all directions, gobs of room to use the stove inside. Use inverted trekking poles with pole jacks and it's all open space.

20220108_151945.jpg 20140930_170552.jpg

[Hillbillyhanger]

I understood your question. If you can pitch an 8x8 tarp over a hammock in a diamond shape, ridgeline on the tarp diagonal, and you were comfortable with that, you could just do the same on the ground by lowering the ridgeline. If you decide to go with fixing the back corner to the ground and lifting the front (sometimes called flying diamond), and feel it's not working for you, you have the option to return the ridgeline to horizontal. Or set it up pyramid style, which I think you'd be fine with, that's how I usually pitch in bad weather.

The smallest tarp I've used is 8x10 so I can't give you a definitive answer but most experienced tarp users don't seem to consider 8x8 too small. Sleeping under a tarp is like sleeping in a lean-to. You catch breezes and wind sometimes. Not sure what you might use in your hammock for underneath insulation but you'll need a decent pad on the ground for winter (or double up with a foam pad). Since you are familiar with setting up your tarp in the winter, working with lines and stakes, keeping it taut, no big deal there. Too many small issues can get magnified to a bigger issue and in the winter that's not a good thing. I have tarped in mild winter conditions but I generally bring either a winter tent or my pyramid tent during the winter. I prefer four walls for the margin of error. Blowing snow would be a concern depending on location.

No where in my original post did I ever say that I used an 8x8 tarp with my hammock. I just said that I hadvexperience with a tarp using a hammock. I asked if an 8x8 tarp on the ground provided enough weather protection.

[Slo-go'en]

An 8X8 with diamond pitch gives you 11.3 linear feet along the diagonal. Assuming you're about 6' tall, that leaves 5.3 feet of buffer between you and the ends to work with. The angle you pitch it at determines how much splash protection each end gets. The flying diamond pitch should use a tarp with a catenary cut so the sides can be made taught. With square cut, you'll have trouble with sag and flapping.

8X8 should be fine for light rain, like often occurs around dawn, but probably not for a heavy downpour. 8X10 gives you more area to work with, 80 sq feet vs 62 sq feet for the 8X8. So, how much rain do you expect?

It's now February, so you need to decide fast!

[cmoulder]

Bottom line, 8x8 can work well. So many ways to configure a square tarp, although for some of the more complex shapes something larger than 8x8 might be needed.

Here's a 9x7, tapering to 5' at the foot end. Plenty of room, and possible to make the foot end even lower and bring the open side all the way to the ground to get solid protection from 3 sides.

SLD_Tarp_01.jpg SLD_Tarp_02.jpg

[Alligator]

No where in my original post did I ever say that I used an 8x8 tarp with my hammock. I just said that I hadvexperience with a tarp using a hammock. I asked if an 8x8 tarp on the ground provided enough weather protection.

Key word I used was IF. I wasn't sure if an 8x8 could even be used with a hammock, that's why I said

If you can pitch an 8x8 tarp over a hammock in a diamond shape...

I was trying to assuage your concern by relating it to something you may have used. If your hammock experience was not relatable and you don't want to talk about it, no need to bring it up in the first place. I will say as an admin here, if you have a need to have your question answered very strictly, I recommend you post your thread into the Straight Forward Forum.

I was answering your question in post #3 above when I said

I do understand you are talking about fixing one point [to the ground]. The diagonal on an 8x8 is 11.3'. You won't have that distance on the ground but the lower you drop the high corner the wider the sides extend and the on the ground diagonal will get longer.

Meaning the higher the angle the ridge is pitched the less of that 11.3' you are going to have. Also, where the top point is tied, the tarp converges to a point. You also loose some of that diagonal length because your body is wider than the small bit of triangle of tarp that extends from where the top point is tied. You have to scoot towards the low end to avoid direct rain and rain splash. On the low end, you need room for your feet (or head) plus some loft of your bag and pad height. You may want to have a little space above the feet (or head) there too to avoid any condensation. There's a fairly wide opening though on the high end, it's kind of like the opening on a waffle cone, maybe no trouble with condesation. I've seen this pitch recommended by people I trust but the opening is why I don't particularly like to use it. In a driving rain, if I am using a pyramid pitch, I can hang my rain jacket over the opening. The arc of the opening is smaller on a pyramid vs diamond pitches. Lots of ways to pitch a tarp though.

[Hillbillyhanger]

Tarp can be okay.... until the wind direction changes.

For wind and snow, a pyramid (MLD Duomid below) is hard to beat. Got you covered from all directions, gobs of room to use the stove inside. Use inverted trekking poles with pole jacks and it's all open space.

20220108_151945.jpg 20140930_170552.jpg

Thank you. I'll have to give that shelter a look. Looks like an impressive bathtub floor as well. I'm normally a hammocker (I think I recognize your name from Hammock Forums as well), but I"m looking for something lighter than my traditional double-walled tent for those occasional outings where the tree swingin' life is not possible. Thank you.

[Hillbillyhanger]

Bottom line, 8x8 can work well. So many ways to configure a square tarp, although for some of the more complex shapes something larger than 8x8 might be needed.

Here's a 9x7, tapering to 5' at the foot end. Plenty of room, and possible to make the foot end even lower and bring the open side all the way to the ground to get solid protection from 3 sides.

SLD_Tarp_01.jpg SLD_Tarp_02.jpg

Thank you again.

[cmoulder]

Thank you. I'll have to give that shelter a look. Looks like an impressive bathtub floor as well. I'm normally a hammocker (I think I recognize your name from Hammock Forums as well), but I"m looking for something lighter than my traditional double-walled tent for those occasional outings where the tree swingin' life is not possible. Thank you.

Yes, I'm also on HF and like you see the need to GtG occasionally. And I too much prefer hanging!