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  1. #1

    Default If a 20* +1oz overstuff is to warm will 30* be to cold?

    I use a 20* UGQ with 1 oz over stuffing. I typically use it all 3 seasons just because it is the lightest quilt I have.

    I’ve considered buying a 30* quilt for a few reasons. 1) The weight savings, 2) smaller packed size, 3) more comfortable regarding temp

    If I go to a 30* (no over stuffing, but maybe over stuff footbox) will that seem like a big jump?

    It’s hard to justify another $400 quilt for 10* if it isn’t going to fix a problem or possibly creat one; being cold instead of warm at night.

  2. #2
    Coach Lou coach lou's Avatar
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    I just don't zip my bags all the way up if it gets warm. I always bring the warmest bag for the season.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OhioHiker View Post
    I use a 20* UGQ with 1 oz over stuffing. I typically use it all 3 seasons just because it is the lightest quilt I have.

    I’ve considered buying a 30* quilt for a few reasons. 1) The weight savings, 2) smaller packed size, 3) more comfortable regarding temp

    If I go to a 30* (no over stuffing, but maybe over stuff footbox) will that seem like a big jump?

    It’s hard to justify another $400 quilt for 10* if it isn’t going to fix a problem or possibly creat one; being cold instead of warm at night.
    Quilt warmth ratings from one person to the next and to the next and... etc... are VERY subjective. Some people are warm at or below 'advertised' ratings and some cold or very cold sleepers require a 10, 20 or even 30 degree or more buffer. Manufacturers' ratings vary somewhat. A lot depends on the effectiveness your ground insulation... many times quilts and sleeping bags are blamed when the real problem is an air mat or CCF mat (or both) not getting the job done.

    Does your 20°F quilt keep you warm at 20°F? Or colder? If you're completely comfortable at 20°F then you'll not likely notice much of a difference with a 30 degree quilt.

    However, if you want the lightest, most 'stuffable' quilt you must pay attention to the shell material, which has far more impact on compressed size and weight than down does. For instance, a 7D quilt with 850FP down will compress smaller than a 20D quilt with 950FP down, and will weigh significantly less. Of course, the best of both would be 7D shell material with 950FP fill. I have a 30deg Enlightened Equipment Enigma with those very same specs (7D, 950FP — no overstuff) and it is one of the best things I've ever purchased. It weighs right at 400g and has been totally warm *for me* down to actual 25°F. But again, that's me — one data point. And besides EE there are not many cottage companies, and certainly no mass market manufacturers, using 7D material for quilts.

  4. #4
    Registered User Venchka's Avatar
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    Cmoulder:
    What R value stuff do you put between you and the ground with that quilt?
    And. I know you have said it before, but: when using a CCF pad and an air mattress, is the CCF above or below the air mattress?
    Thanks and I will write the answer on the CCF pad!
    Wayne

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    Quote Originally Posted by Venchka View Post
    Cmoulder:
    What R value stuff do you put between you and the ground with that quilt?
    And. I know you have said it before, but: when using a CCF pad and an air mattress, is the CCF above or below the air mattress?
    Thanks and I will write the answer on the CCF pad!
    Wayne
    For the past few years I've been mostly hammocking, however in past years I've used a Neoair Trekker 47"x25" (pack under lower legs/feet) with a 3/8" CCF full length mat down to about 0°F and had no problems. This winter I used the same combo, ground setup on the snow, down to -15°F and it was survivable (I got some sleep) but not entirely comfortable. I was using a +20 EE Enigma, wearing all clothing plus down parka and down pants. I don't know the R values for either air mat or CCF, but combined estimate is about 6. I could've used another R or 2. I bought a 0deg quilt after that and got to use it only 1 night this year, down to -8°F... I was warm.

    Definitely warmer with CCF on top. I tested this out the wazoo some 10-12 years ago and it wasn't even a close call. At least for me.

  6. #6
    Registered User Venchka's Avatar
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    Thanks! I have an Xtherm large and a piece of CCF Blue foam. Foam on top. All of the clothes inside the WM Alpinlite. I should be okay in NW North Carolina and SW Virginia. In the chilly months.
    Cheers!
    Wayne

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    Quote Originally Posted by Venchka View Post
    Thanks! I have an Xtherm large and a piece of CCF Blue foam. Foam on top. All of the clothes inside the WM Alpinlite. I should be okay in NW North Carolina and SW Virginia. In the chilly months.
    Cheers!
    Wayne
    No doubt that'll work most of the time. Just stay off Mt Mitchell, Rogers etc during the worst of it! You've got one heckuva nice collection of high peaks down there.

  8. #8
    Registered User Venchka's Avatar
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    Thanks! I need to get rid of a bad case of SLOTH!
    I also have a Western Mountaineering Antelope to back up the Alpinlite. If I can carry everything I should be okay.
    Cheers!
    Wayne

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by cmoulder View Post
    Quilt warmth ratings from one person to the next and to the next and... etc... are VERY subjective. Some people are warm at or below 'advertised' ratings and some cold or very cold sleepers require a 10, 20 or even 30 degree or more buffer. Manufacturers' ratings vary somewhat. A lot depends on the effectiveness your ground insulation... many times quilts and sleeping bags are blamed when the real problem is an air mat or CCF mat (or both) not getting the job done.

    Does your 20°F quilt keep you warm at 20°F? Or colder? If you're completely comfortable at 20°F then you'll not likely notice much of a difference with a 30 degree quilt.

    However, if you want the lightest, most 'stuffable' quilt you must pay attention to the shell material, which has far more impact on compressed size and weight than down does. For instance, a 7D quilt with 850FP down will compress smaller than a 20D quilt with 950FP down, and will weigh significantly less. Of course, the best of both would be 7D shell material with 950FP fill. I have a 30deg Enlightened Equipment Enigma with those very same specs (7D, 950FP — no overstuff) and it is one of the best things I've ever purchased. It weighs right at 400g and has been totally warm *for me* down to actual 25°F. But again, that's me — one data point. And besides EE there are not many cottage companies, and certainly no mass market manufacturers, using 7D material for quilts.
    Thank you for the insight. I have been thinking and building several quilts.. one being a EE 7D with 950 sewn footbox and overstuff feet area.

    I’ve never had my quilt down to 20*. Only about 30 and I was plenty warm. I try to not go out if the temps are much lower than 38ish.

    As for the rest of my sleep system I bounce between a Xlite and S2S eatherlite. Both greater than 3 or 4 R.

    This year I am going to try a S2S Ultralight insulated pad it is R3.1.

    I pair these all with a CCF pad. Again this year I switched to a Exped foam flex mat. It is a R2.2.

    I like the ability of having a foam and air pad. I am a side sleeper and really appreciate the extra cushion. Also provides a backup, lunchtime nap pad, sit pad, clean place to lay out gear in the morning…. Many uses.

  10. #10

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    I also forgot to mention I’ve noticed around mid 40s sometimes I get clammy and a few time have gotten the shivers. I think because of being damp? I didn’t feel “cold” per say.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OhioHiker View Post
    Thank you for the insight. I have been thinking and building several quilts.. one being a EE 7D with 950 sewn footbox and overstuff feet area.

    I’ve never had my quilt down to 20*. Only about 30 and I was plenty warm. I try to not go out if the temps are much lower than 38ish.

    As for the rest of my sleep system I bounce between a Xlite and S2S eatherlite. Both greater than 3 or 4 R.

    This year I am going to try a S2S Ultralight insulated pad it is R3.1.

    I pair these all with a CCF pad. Again this year I switched to a Exped foam flex mat. It is a R2.2.

    I like the ability of having a foam and air pad. I am a side sleeper and really appreciate the extra cushion. Also provides a backup, lunchtime nap pad, sit pad, clean place to lay out gear in the morning…. Many uses.
    Quote Originally Posted by OhioHiker View Post
    I also forgot to mention I’ve noticed around mid 40s sometimes I get clammy and a few time have gotten the shivers. I think because of being damp? I didn’t feel “cold” per say.
    In the past, about 4-5 years ago, EE was known for using less down compared to similarly rated quilts for other mfgrs, but they've upped their amounts in response to widespread criticism and I'd say they're pretty accurate now. My 30deg is definitely 30, and really just as warm as my older (~9yr) 20deg Enigma, which I suppose has been rendered redundant. The new 0deg is IMO accurately rated. Bottom line, I don't think overstuff is now needed for a 'normal' sleeper... with the usual caveat regarding individual experience.

    But, if high 30's is your limit I'd wager that the 30deg will work for you.

    I forget the formula for combining R ratings, but CCF+air mat is always a good combo for warmth. Years back, when doing the "CCF on top, bottom?" testing I also tried out a GG thinlight 1/8" (about 3oz), the referenced 3/8" ccf (about 7.5oz) and a TR Ridgerest (about 15oz) in identical conditions (which IIRC was single digits F) and found the 3/8" ccf to be my Goldilocks solution.

    And it sounds to me that your current air mat+CCF is getting the job done for you. In the current warming weather, I'm carrying a torso-length CCF to supplement my hammock setup (foot box supplement for 3/4 quilts), and it's also my sit pad and ground mat for quick breaks when I want to stretch out etc. Definitely get a lot of use out of that item!

    Being clammy is a good problem. It means you're too warm and it's easy enough to ventilate.

  12. #12

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    I own 2 quilts, a 20F and a 40F; or rather I'm on my 2nd set of quilts with those temperature ratings. I starting using quilts back in 2008, and recently needed to replace them and went with the same rating because I find this covers most situations well. Getting a 30F when you have a 20F has too much overlap and still will be hot in warmer weather. That said, if you never camp in warmer weather than yeah a 30F might be what you need. So it really is dependent on the temperature ranges you are trying to cover; both bottom and top end.

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