Smokies Fee Proposal 2023

[illabelle]

https://www.nps.gov/grsm/planyourvis...e-proposal.htm
Public comment period April 6 - May 7. Scroll to bottom of page and click on "COMMENT NOW" button.

Some highlights:
Increases and standardization of frontcountry camping fees (most going from $25 to $30)
Doubling of backcountry camping fee ($4/person increasing to $8/person)
Brand new fee for parking (and elimination of all unofficial roadside parking):

"The Smokies Parking Tag would be available for purchase both online and onsite. The park asks the public to provide input on the price and duration of the parking tag. In addition to public input, the park has assessed parking fees in gateway communities and found that the average daily rate is $15, and the average monthly rate is $67.50. In National Park sites where parking fees are charged, the average rate is $9 per day and $50 per year. The park is proposing a daily parking tag for $5, a parking tag for up to seven days for $15 and an annual parking tag for $40."

My comments:
Backcountry fee should be changed to a per tent fee, instead of a per person fee. Or have it both ways, and pay whichever one is less.
What happens when I pay for a backcountry site, get to the trailhead, and there's no empty "official" parking space?

[HooKooDooKu]

What happens when I pay for a backcountry site, get to the trailhead, and there's no empty "official" parking space?

I've already been facing that issue... specifically any hike I've done starting at the Cataloochee Divide trail where there's only room for about two cars.
But at least today, I'm able to drive farther down the road until I could find a place where there was enough margin on the side of the road to park.

I fear for what it's going to be like when they issue parking tags with no concern with limits, yet effectively reduce the amount of parking in the park by more than half.

[Starchild]

I hate to see roadside parking go away, it's sometimes needed.

Backcountry fee should be changed to a per tent fee, instead of a per person fee.

Per tent site or per shelter 'slot' per night makes more sense however if it's still the same and as I understand it, legally there is no fee for back country camping - that is prohibited by law , but only to pay for the system that charges you the fee. So the whole system is a quagmire of quazi-legalality and changing the structure of the fees also calls the underlying legal issue back into the light.

[HooKooDooKu]

The 'per person' back country fee irritated me the most when they proposed it because that's NOT how the front country works.
Irritated to stew out of me I could (in certain situations) pay more to take my family to a back country site where the only "amenity" is a set of bear cables that it would cost (at the time) to take the same number of people to a front country site where you have flush toilets, a picnic table, etc.

[madgoat]

I wonder if backcountry permits ($8 per person per night) would also include the cost of parking for the duration of the backcountry trip. Or would you also have to pay for a parking permit for the duration of your hike?

[HooKooDooKu]

I wonder if backcountry permits ($8 per person per night) would also include the cost of parking for the duration of the backcountry trip. Or would you also have to pay for a parking permit for the duration of your hike?

While there are lots of details to work out, I feel pretty sure the two fees will be separate. There's too much of a disconnect between fee structure between parking and camping.
The camping fee is per-night. But so far, parking will be a 3 tier system: Per day, per week, per year.

But along those lines, my question is will they require a parking tag to park at a front country camp ground?
Given that many front country camp grounds have trailheads non-campers use, I would think you would need a parking tag to park there.
But they could easily make an exception for cars parked at a paid-for campsite. But they might not and simply require a parking tag even if you're in a paid-for front country parking lot.

[illabelle]

I wonder how much the "public comment" period matters. Most of the time it seems like these government agencies have already made up their minds about things, and the public comments are just for show.

In spite of that, I do plan to send my comments. Grousing here on WB or on FB doesn't do much good unless it stirs up enough like-minded people that TPTB actually hear us.

*********

It bugs me that so many people "love the park to death" but when you look at where they live, it's often Suburbia*. Suburbia, as I've mostly seen it constructed, destroys natural and native habitat and replaces it with lawns and Bradford pears. The park is beautiful and peaceful and soul-feeding precisely because it's wild and undeveloped. The restrictions on park usage is to protect the park from being degraded by overuse and overdevelopment. So why do we overdevelop and overvalue the places where all the wildness has been stripped away? My lawn is full of native grasses and native flowers and native weeds of every description - and I like it that way! I value biodiversity. I wish more people did.

*I'm not knocking the people who live in Suburbia. We all live where we can find a place. I AM knocking the short-sighted planners and developers.

[BillyGr]

While there are lots of details to work out, I feel pretty sure the two fees will be separate. There's too much of a disconnect between fee structure between parking and camping.
The camping fee is per-night. But so far, parking will be a 3 tier system: Per day, per week, per year.

But along those lines, my question is will they require a parking tag to park at a front country camp ground?
Given that many front country camp grounds have trailheads non-campers use, I would think you would need a parking tag to park there.
But they could easily make an exception for cars parked at a paid-for campsite. But they might not and simply require a parking tag even if you're in a paid-for front country parking lot.

They could fairly simply issue you a parking tag for the time you are camping as part of that reservation, then require those parking but not camping to buy a daily, weekly or yearly one to use the lot. Other places do this already, so not a new idea.