Soap vs hand sanitizer to avoid norovirus, giardia

[weddingwalker]

During past section hikes I've washed my hands with hand sanitizer but I've read a few things (one link below) that soap & water should be more effective for preventing norovirus and giardia. I'm thinking I could mix some camp soap with water (not sure of ratio) and put it in one of those hand sanitizer holders that I clip on my backpack. Any suggestions?

https://www.cdc.gov/handwashing/show...difficile1%2D5.

[HankIV]

I used just hand sanitizer and was fine. Didn’t really focus on avoiding surfaces, like I’ve read is a good way to minimize noro. But I was SOBO, so overall less crowded conditions.

If you do choose soap, get the concentrated you can and dilute it in the field. For the same reason, I used a tooth powder rather than paste.

[gpburdelljr]

Since hand sanitizers aren’t very effective on norovirus I agree that hand washing is better. The soap doesn’t kill the viruses, just removes them from the surface of your skin. You still need to rinse your hands to remove the virus containing suds. If you can’t properly wash your hands, including rinsing, hand sanitizer will still help.

https://www.cdc.gov/handwashing/when...ndwashing.html

[Traveler]

Soap and water remain the best way to remove norovirus as your link pointed out, I carry a bar of soap and a hand towel as part of my gear so I can tend to hygiene as needed, however it's only partial protection. Having picked up a norovirus along the way, I take great pains to avoid it much as I do giardiasis and other parasites. For me there are some other precautions that I use that may be a consideration:

• I filter all my water, having giardiasis once was all I needed to make this rule as there is no education in the second kick of the mule
• I do not allow anyone to stick their hands into my trail mix snack baggie and will shake some out if share
• Avoid sharing someone else's snacks - hard to say where their hands have been over the past few hours or days
• I avoid shaking hands - I don't even fist bump when on trail due to norovirus concerns, elbows are fine if necessary
• I generally don't share cookware/silverware unless I have washed it myself first
• Since norovirus can be carried on clothing, I am careful what I am touching
• I do not prepare food on a communal table, I find a place I can set up a stove away from the camp table
• Though a little extreme I generally avoid sitting on communal seating in camping areas

Limiting exposures will help avoid norovirus and parasites along with their related miseries. Since I have done this I am pleased to say I have managed to avoid these viruses over many years. There are few things more frustrating than getting an intestinal bug miles from medical care that jams up a long trek.

[dudeijuststarted]

Soap and water whenever possible. Trim those nails.

[Alligator]

Sanitizers don't work nearly as well on dirty things as they do on clean things. Making time to wash your hands is worth the added effort. A simple solution I use for washing things is a Platypus cap that I drilled out with small holes to create a sprayer. I put the bladder in a stuff sack made out of a lemon mesh sack. A couple of folds at the top of the open sack with a thin cord and cord lock threaded through allows closure around the bladder. It can be hung up at thus point and tilted to spray your hands. I also bring a small green scrubby which I include with a small soap dispenser in a ziplock in order to wash dishes. I use the bladder to also rinse those.

[Miner]

When Covid hit and I was trying to see if Hand Sanitizer worked on it, I discovered an article on how it was utterly useless against norovirus. Which got me thinking. Over the past 20 or so years, I noticed a rising trend in hikers talking about nororvirus on the AT in their posts, online journals/blogs, and videos. In the early 2000's, it seemed rare to find a mention of it. In the last decade, every year you hear of multiple outbreaks at different points along the trail. That would seem to correspond to how hand sanitizer use was replacing using soap in the backcountry.

While I mainly use hand sanitizer on my trips, on longer ones, I do carry a tiny soap bar (the size you often get in hotels) in a ziplock and occasionally use it when water doesn't seem to clean enough, or I may have been exposed to poison oak/ivy, or in an environment where I'm concerned about norovirus, etc. A tiny solid soap bar weighs less than any liquid with soap in it and lasts a long time. I'm heading out to thru-hike the CDT in 2 weeks, and I will be bringing both. People in recent years don't like carrying water bladders/reservoirs, but I have a small shower attachment on a quick disconnect for my Platypus that I like to sometimes use so I do bring it on long hikes (Playpus shower kit with the hose cut short and a quick disconnect and on/off valve added) You can do a similar thing with a bottle by drilling holes in the cap, but you can't hang a bottle.

[Daybreak]

I might bring soap or a tiny and mostly empty squirt tube of camp soap but never hand sanitizer. I rarely use soap unless hiking with a group or using natural toilet paper.

Tried soap for insomnia but found earplugs and avoiding shelters with snorers more effective.

Caught Lyme disease on a day hike not on the AT... and yes I checked for ticks and took a soapy shower. BTW my bullseye was centered on a swollen horse fly or similar bite. I avoid slackpacking on section and thru hikes.
Caught giardia at a Colorado lodge along with a dozen others. I compulsively filter my water and am extremely careful with cross-contamination. Again, I avoid slackpacking and hostels that support slackpacking.

Caught typhoid while living in Indonesia. BTW it is a salmonella variation.

Caught a minor bout of covid from close proximity to someone in a friend group. IMO soap is 99% useless for covid as it is an airborne virus that dies and disperses quickly. I avoid the elbow bump.

Norovirus?? Solo on the CDT is a wonderful place. Make sure to wash your hands after every hitch.

[Slugg]

I might bring soap or a tiny and mostly empty squirt tube of camp soap but never hand sanitizer. I rarely use soap unless hiking with a group or using natural toilet paper.

Tried soap for insomnia but found earplugs and avoiding shelters with snorers more effective.

Caught Lyme disease on a day hike not on the AT... and yes I checked for ticks and took a soapy shower. BTW my bullseye was centered on a swollen horse fly or similar bite. I avoid slackpacking on section and thru hikes.
Caught giardia at a Colorado lodge along with a dozen others. I compulsively filter my water and am extremely careful with cross-contamination. Again, I avoid slackpacking and hostels that support slackpacking.

Caught typhoid while living in Indonesia. BTW it is a salmonella variation.

Caught a minor bout of covid from close proximity to someone in a friend group. IMO soap is 99% useless for covid as it is an airborne virus that dies and disperses quickly. I avoid the elbow bump.

Norovirus?? Solo on the CDT is a wonderful place. Make sure to wash your hands after every hitch.

What exactly is the issue with slackpacking?

[Daybreak]

What exactly is the issue with slackpacking?

I have no issue with slackpacking. I like slack packers. They have less direct impact along the trail. I enjoy being in the woods at night and am not inclined to slackpack during a section hike or thru hike. I am simply commenting that I have never gotten sick backpacking yet have gotten both Lyme disease and giardia in conjunction with day hiking i.e. slackpacking. The first is simply a joke, the second is half truth.

We probably got giardia or a similar parasite from contaminated strawberries served at a group meal between two days of day hiking. Had I been backpacking I would not have gotten sick.

When slackpacking on the AT, hikers typically stay multiple nights in closely packed hostels were germs seem more likely to be shared both airborne and via surfaces than at an AT campsite (as opposed to a shelter and its table). In town or at a remote hostel hikers eat out together or eat family style meals. Norovirus outbreaks usually seem to start from contaminated food, not the stuff carried by most backpackers, and then it gets passed along via contaminated hands and surfaces. We talk about getting sick on the trail but crowded town stays can also get you sick. When you go to dinner, how many people actually wash their hands after they open the door and move the chair? Consider that the CDC suggests a chlorine based solution to kill the virus on surfaces. Was that table really cleaned with a bleach based solution before anyone put their silverware on it. When were the chairs and door handles last cleaned?

Ever watch people in the supermarket? Some handle 10-20 zucchinis or apples to find the right one. Others pick up every parsley bunch just in case there is a bunch of long gone cilantro mixed in. How about the all you can eat and family style places? Think about who and how many people used the serving utensils before and after you. These places including schools and cafeterias are also routinely sited for not keeping cold food cold enough nor hot food hot enough. I think I will start washing my hands after every shopping trip.

The increase in norovirus also seems to track the increase in number of hostels and popularity of slack packing on a thru hike. There were maybe a dozen in 1999. I remember many more in 2004. Now, there to seems to multiple options in every town.

[Slugg]

I have no issue with slackpacking. I like slack packers. They have less direct impact along the trail. I enjoy being in the woods at night and am not inclined to slackpack during a section hike or thru hike. I am simply commenting that I have never gotten sick backpacking yet have gotten both Lyme disease and giardia in conjunction with day hiking i.e. slackpacking. The first is simply a joke, the second is half truth.

We probably got giardia or a similar parasite from contaminated strawberries served at a group meal between two days of day hiking. Had I been backpacking I would not have gotten sick.

When slackpacking on the AT, hikers typically stay multiple nights in closely packed hostels were germs seem more likely to be shared both airborne and via surfaces than at an AT campsite (as opposed to a shelter and its table). In town or at a remote hostel hikers eat out together or eat family style meals. Norovirus outbreaks usually seem to start from contaminated food, not the stuff carried by most backpackers, and then it gets passed along via contaminated hands and surfaces. We talk about getting sick on the trail but crowded town stays can also get you sick. When you go to dinner, how many people actually wash their hands after they open the door and move the chair? Consider that the CDC suggests a chlorine based solution to kill the virus on surfaces. Was that table really cleaned with a bleach based solution before anyone put their silverware on it. When were the chairs and door handles last cleaned?

Ever watch people in the supermarket? Some handle 10-20 zucchinis or apples to find the right one. Others pick up every parsley bunch just in case there is a bunch of long gone cilantro mixed in. How about the all you can eat and family style places? Think about who and how many people used the serving utensils before and after you. These places including schools and cafeterias are also routinely sited for not keeping cold food cold enough nor hot food hot enough. I think I will start washing my hands after every shopping trip.

The increase in norovirus also seems to track the increase in number of hostels and popularity of slack packing on a thru hike. There were maybe a dozen in 1999. I remember many more in 2004. Now, there to seems to multiple options in every town.

I gotcha, all that makes sense. Poorly-worded question.

[Old Hiker]

I used these: https://www.amazon.com/Washing-Dispo...xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==


I also filtered my water and used iodine tabs in the filtered water, just to be sure. I washed WITH the iodine water. I didn't neutralize the iodine until it was time to drink. I figured the more time with the sanitizer, the better.

Think about where you put your hands in a shelter or environs. People are walking THROUGH the poop and tracking it onto the floors/sleeping areas of the shelter.