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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by hikerjohnd
    On PBF this post would have been editeb by a mod (or Reality himself??) and you would have received a friendly reminder....
    Or deleted altogether, since the format is apparently more important than the information. Am I beating a dead horse?

  2. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by Just Jeff
    Or deleted altogether, since the format is apparently more important than the information. Am I beating a dead horse?
    Actually, according to the guidelines it wouldn't be deleted because it is on topic with the post. This thread is about peoples' opinions on a new forum and my post is in response to that, so it's on topic.

    I think some arguments here are being based on the assumption that a forum is a place where you can say anything you want. Probably people are used to this because so many forums are not moderated to keep posts on topic. But why does every forum have to be like that? There are already more than enough. Why can't there be an alternative for people who don't want to wade through personal attacks and political rants? To me, that's what PBF offers.

    I think the claims that the forum will not last because it wants people to stay on topic are not sound. How long would a political forum like some of the shows on CNN last if they invited a panel of political analysts to discuss the situation in Iraq and the moderator let some of them starting going off on a tangent talking about their favorite cookie recipies? My guess is it would be taken off the air because the job of a moderator is to moderate and keep the discussion on topic.

    I'm sure a lot of people like getting into the "my gear can beat up your gear" wars, but others like me don't. I think PBF has done a good job of this so far. It's nice to pacticipate in an online community where my "ignore list" isn't growing day by day that know that the people there are only interested in sharing new insights on gear and backpacking.

    That's just my 2 cents. I'm not trying to convince anyone to think the way I do. I'm only stating why I like the new forum. When all is said and done, you can participate in whichever forums you like. That's the beauty of diversity that the net offers.

    I still participate in other forums, but every time I visit them and see some immature personal battle, I'm reminded of how much I appreciate the fact that I don't have to put up with that on PBF.
    BackpackFlyfishing.com
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  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by jasonklass
    Actually, according to the guidelines it wouldn't be deleted because it is on topic with the post. This thread is about peoples' opinions on a new forum and my post is in response to that, so it's on topic.
    Ok - there was a thread on hiking with kids. I posted a link to a page devoted solely to hiking with kids, but I didn't put it in the proper format. My post was deleted and I got a reminder to follow the rules. Ergo, my conclusion that the format was more important than the info, and my statement here that improperly formatted, on-topic posts may be deleted.

    Quote Originally Posted by jasonklass
    I think some arguments here are being based on the assumption that a forum is a place where you can say anything you want. Probably people are used to this because so many forums are not moderated to keep posts on topic. But why does every forum have to be like that? There are already more than enough. Why can't there be an alternative for people who don't want to wade through personal attacks and political rants? To me, that's what PBF offers.
    Agree 100%. I already listed that as a positive.

    Quote Originally Posted by jasonklass
    I think the claims that the forum will not last because it wants people to stay on topic are not sound.
    Agree here, too - but I don't think "staying on topic" is the only thing the moderation is about. For example, I posted a question about the site's rules in the PBF Help forum - he didn't like it so he deleted it...then sent me a "how dare you question me and if you don't like it then leave"-type PM. A question about the rules in the Help forum is clearly on-topic in my opinion.

    Deleting on-topic posts b/c the format is off is clearly not only about staying on topic.

    Secrecy about how many posts you need before you can start a poll or view user profiles is clearly not about staying on topic.

    Quote Originally Posted by jasonklass
    I still participate in other forums, but every time I visit them and see some immature personal battle, I'm reminded of how much I appreciate the fact that I don't have to put up with that on PBF.
    Yep - a lot of urinary olympiads here on WB. But I also like being able to talk to my "internet friends" about stuff other than hiking now and then. Both forums have their places (and the many others on the net).

  4. #64
    Registered User Frolicking Dinosaurs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jasonklass
    I'm really happy that PBF is so progressive and has already attracted so many quality posters..... I think the claims that the forum will not last because it wants people to stay on topic are not sound.
    PBF attracted some quality people - most do not participate there now because of the way it is moderated. Attempting to stay on topic is one thing. Micro-managing posters is quite another - and I've experienced and heard enough to believe that is what is happening. The 'friendly reminders' get less and less friendly - and it has just happened to too many people. My opinion - Bernie has shot himself in the foot with this venture and it would take years to repair the damage that already been done.

    I haven't seen anyone say that the forum isn't going to last because it kept on topic - the problem has been and continues to be how it is moderated.

    I read there less and less as time goes on because so many of the good people have left. I don't like the constant nit-picking 'friendly reminders' so I quit posting there. Had I been causing strife or going way off topic, it would be understandable. But I wasn't - I was posting pretty much the same way I post in this forum - which for all its problems is has far more long-term quality members and far more comprehensive information and readership than PBF will ever have IMO.

  5. #65

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    Interesting comment on the PBF Home Page.....

    "PBF may be restricting registrations (new signups) soon - if you want in, now is your chance.
    Posts (all content) will also be hidden from guest viewing at that time!"

  6. #66
    Springer-->Stony Brook Road VT MedicineMan's Avatar
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    Default must want to limit membership to 3 or 4

    and i'll bet that most postings will be between the administrator's multiple identities.....this is so wingfoot like,,,,,,did someone confirm it wasnt him?
    doesnt matter, for a newbie and casual observer hopping back and forth between the available AT forums there is already a bad taste in the air....reality is that in this country the crushing thumb of censorship is still resisted with a vengeance....that is the major reason that WB flourishes, reason 2 being that this like BJ has stated is THE site for AT information. Period.
    Start out slow, then slow down.

  7. #67
    Registered User Frolicking Dinosaurs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by max patch
    Interesting comment on the PBF Home Page.....

    "PBF may be restricting registrations (new signups) soon - if you want in, now is your chance.
    Posts (all content) will also be hidden from guest viewing at that time!"
    I think he is trying to coax his guests into signing up to bolster his floundering membership numbers. Wolf will be raising mice and Neo will be sleeping in a tent before this guy blocks his forum from any potential members.

  8. #68
    Administrator attroll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by max patch
    Interesting comment on the PBF Home Page.....

    "PBF may be restricting registrations (new signups) soon - if you want in, now is your chance.
    Posts (all content) will also be hidden from guest viewing at that time!"
    I went over to view the site and I could not find this statement. So I can not verify that this is true.

    I can verify that all the posts that I made over on that site have been deleted. I posted several and all were on topic and in the proper forum. So I don't know what happened to them. This is not a good practice to do to people and is not going to do anything but spiral the site downhill if it continues.

    I wish that web site success, but with what I am hearing I am wondering how long it will last.
    AT Troll (2010)
    Time does not wait for you, it keeps on rolling.

    Whiteblaze.net User Agreement.

  9. #69

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    Quote Originally Posted by attroll
    I went over to view the site and I could not find this statement. So I can not verify that this is true.
    Its still there.

  10. #70
    Registered User Frolicking Dinosaurs's Avatar
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    ATTroll, I'm at a loss for words that he deleted your posts when they violated no site rules. Very poor form indeed. My posts are still there - I wish they weren't as I'm embarrassed to have ever been a part of that site.

    BTW, the statement mentioned by Max Patch is on the forum index page - the page you get taken to if you click on the site's logo - and you have to be viewing as a guest to see it. Go there and log out - and then go to the page to view it.

  11. #71
    Administrator attroll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by max patch
    Its still there.
    PBF may be restricting registrations (new signups) soon - if you want in, now is your chance.
    Posts (all content) will also be hidden from guest viewing at that time!
    I see it now. It logged me in automatically with cookies. It only displays when your not logged in.

    I am not going to talk bad about any other web site. Because WhiteBlaze was also in the same position as this other web site at one time and I am sure people thought the same thing about us.

    But if they want to limit there web site to only 246 members then more power to them, but I do not know what have a web site with only 246 members is going to accomplish. If this is the case then there intentions were never to help the public in the first place.
    AT Troll (2010)
    Time does not wait for you, it keeps on rolling.

    Whiteblaze.net User Agreement.

  12. #72

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frolicking Dinosaurs
    I think he is trying to coax his guests into signing up to bolster his floundering membership numbers. Wolf will be raising mice and Neo will be sleeping in a tent before this guy blocks his forum from any potential members.
    Membership is not floundering, it's growing everyday. I'm not sure where you get this from.
    BackpackFlyfishing.com
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  13. #73
    Registered User Frolicking Dinosaurs's Avatar
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    Jason, would you mind removing my membership and posts?

  14. #74
    Musta notta gotta lotta sleep last night. Heater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MedicineMan
    and i'll bet that most postings will be between the administrator's multiple identities.....this is so wingfoot like,,,,,,did someone confirm it wasnt him?
    doesnt matter, for a newbie and casual observer hopping back and forth between the available AT forums there is already a bad taste in the air....reality is that in this country the crushing thumb of censorship is still resisted with a vengeance....that is the major reason that WB flourishes, reason 2 being that this like BJ has stated is THE site for AT information. Period.
    Question Authority.

  15. #75
    Registered User Skidsteer's Avatar
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    Membership is not floundering, it's growing everyday. I'm not sure where you get this from.
    Quote Originally Posted by Frolicking Dinosaurs
    Jason, would you mind removing my membership and posts?


    Ouch.



    Skids

    "Old age and treachery beats youth and inexperience every time"





  16. #76
    Just Passin' Thru.... Kozmic Zian's Avatar
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    Don't Say, 'I Told You So'....

    See, guys....when I said earlier, 'What Forum'? What I was trying to extoll was the fact that any web-forum like this has to base it's success on how it deals with subscriptors. Now, we've all been through the 'Dregs' of Wingfoots foolery, delt with his cockyness and incredible insecurity. I don't think anyone needs or wants to be 'embarrased' again by that same kind of rudeness. So, by implication and similar association, I simply say, 'Stay On The GoodFoot'....Anyone who needs hiking info, can find all that they need, right here. So, go solicit your 'Forum', elsewhere, I don't need it....or it's apparent lack of dignity. Thank You....KZ@
    Kozmic Zian@ :cool: ' My father considered a walk in the woods as equivalent to churchgoing'. ALDOUS HUXLEY

  17. #77
    Registered User Frolicking Dinosaurs's Avatar
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    I'll accept my lashing with wet ramen - I deserve it. I'm still embarrassed - and my posts are all still there. I guess my user name is being held captive. Maybe I could get the Billville pirates to rescue me?

  18. #78

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    The message has now been changed.

    My guess is that the site is getting a lot of lurkers that the admin is trying to convert to members.

    The site did a similar thing when it was new (and under different management). While WB never claimed that membership would possibly be frozen, the ability to read posts was given only to members for a while. Unregistered members -- lurkers -- could only see the home page. Again, this was probably done to convert lurkers to members.

  19. #79
    Registered User K0OPG's Avatar
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    I thought I was the only person that felt that way about wingfoot.

    I became interested in the trail years ago and went to his website and joined. The first thing I notice were political comments on the home page. I questioned this and asked about it being a forum on the appalachian trail. He quickly informed me that he could put whatever he wanted on it. I visited the site again after GW's reelection and he had a picture of the US flag upside down. Being a retired Marine, this upset me greatly (it freaking pissed me off). I sent an email and told him how I felt (in detail) and have not returned to his site.

    I also purchased one of the dvd's from the ATC store but when I play it, I fast forward through his blah blah blah blah. At least now I know what he looks like. And if I ever see him, well he will get a piece of my mind. Even though I don't have much to spare.

    I feel better now, knowing that I am not the only one.
    Semper Fi and 73's,

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  20. #80
    First Sergeant SGT Rock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by max patch
    The message has now been changed.

    My guess is that the site is getting a lot of lurkers that the admin is trying to convert to members.

    The site did a similar thing when it was new (and under different management). While WB never claimed that membership would possibly be frozen, the ability to read posts was given only to members for a while. Unregistered members -- lurkers -- could only see the home page. Again, this was probably done to convert lurkers to members.
    Naw, it was more a fact of guys new to the software not knowing how the settings worked. It has always been our philosophy that anyone should be able to read content membership or not. BUT, with that said, there are now some forums here that require a membership because of their off topic nature, content about other trails, or sensitive subjects that sometimes offend people.

    There have been times when someone has posted an invitation for others that were lurking to join up, but we have never intentionally made membership mandatory in order to drive up membership numbers. Last time I remember that happening it wasn't even Troll or I that started that thread - it was a member and regular poster.
    SGT Rock
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    BMT Thru-Hikers' Guide
    -----------------------------------------

    NO SNIVELING

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